View source for Talk:Master of the Surprising Fist

I'm guessing this improves your attack/removes the penalty for fighting unarmed. I'm getting the option to "Attack with your suprising fist" instead of the usual weaponless attack button. [[User:Lord kobel|Lord kobel]]
*My guess is that it calculates your damage and defense as if you had a weapon and a shield equipped. Of course, the trick is figuring out what power weapon your Surprising Fist is equivalent to (and what power shield). I would guess 100, since it's a solid mid-range number that almost every Softcore-usable weapon from Mr. Store has had, but this is mere speculation. --[[User:Southwest|Southwest]] 19:56, 16 August 2011 (CEST)

Does this activate Hero? --[[User:Darkwolf|Darkwolf]] 23:48, 16 August 2011 (CEST)

the only effect I can see so far, is about 10 dmg added to my bare handed auto attacks. (Went from doing 47 phsyical dmg a round to 57 dmg a round, with the +30 kung fu buff and about 100 muscle. I did not see any defensive benifit or noticeable drop off in dmg taken. --[[User:Darkwolf|Darkwolf]] 06:48, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

Summarizing a brief discussion in /hc about this: Possibly gives +21dam@L13, does NOT give you the equivalent of Hero, only fumbled once in 90 rounds, crits only do +1 extra damage, did the same damage to knob goblin chef as it did to scarab Beatles. (Thank you to Pyren for reporting on the results of experimentation.) --[[User:Aoi|Aoi]] 11:01, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

If the guess is that this makes the game treat your bare hands as if you were wielding a weapon, has anyone tried using the DemonStar game in the Arcade to figure out the weapon power? --[[User:Phantomreader42|Phantomreader42]] 05:39, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

I used my now-debuffed self to go punch some bunnies while naked. 96 muscle, 0 ML, +39 damage from Kung Fu Fighting. No other effects besides the 4 Kung Fu intrinsics. Consistently hitting them for 73 damage, which seems to imply an extra +10 damage if my maths is correct.  --[[User:Lizardking|Lizardking]] 17:07, 18 August 2011 (CEST)
* Oh, and no, I don't have any passive +damage skills permed either. --[[User:Lizardking|Lizardking]] 17:54, 18 August 2011 (CEST)
* ''Aaaand'' it was exactly 73 damage over 6 combats, so that probably rules out it being from weapon power (which would vary somewhat) --[[User:Lizardking|Lizardking]] 17:57, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

This is really quite disappointing...  :( --[[User:Hollowleg|Hollowleg]] 06:00, 19 August 2011 (CEST)

Could it be a to-hit bonus? Maybe it's just me, but I think I'm hitting things with defense higher than my Muscle way more often than usual without critting. [[User:Edir|Edir]]
*I'm thinkihng there's a to-hit bonus involved. I fighting in the bathroom and the airship with MCD at 11 and 83 buffed muscle and hitting consistently. The Giant Castle I have to use techniques though. I do have Kung Fu Hustler with all intrinsics active. Projected monster defenses of 100 fall easily to my Surprising fist without missing. The Irritating Series of Random Encounters (defense of 105) take a few misses before I hit. Maybe a +20 muscle bonus to-hit?--[[User:Fluxxdog|Fluxxdog]] 16:16, 20 August 2011 (CEST)
*Little more info: Buffed muscle now 84, in the haunted ballroom against zombie waltzers and platters (defense 109), almost always missing, but I can rarely hit them without a critical.--[[User:Fluxxdog|Fluxxdog]] 16:24, 20 August 2011 (CEST)
*I'll have some spare turns tomorrow before I ascend, what would be a good way to test for a to-hit bonus? My character has 151 base muscle. Plenty of ML gear available. HitS isn't unlocked, but could be relatively easily. I'm not sure what monsters have well-established defence, and what ones are still quite vague (and therefore unsuitable). What about scaled monsters? --[[User:Lizardking|Lizardking]] 18:29, 20 August 2011 (CEST)

Well I went ahead and beat up some [[Hamburglaris Shield Generator]] monsters, while unarmed, with various +ML active.

{|
|
|[[alien hamsterpus]]
|[[mutated alielf]]
|[[mutated alielephant]]
|-
|25 ML
|0/81
|0/80
|0/32
|-
|24 ML
|5/84
|0/11
|0/37
|-
|23 ML
|18/104
|1/18
|0/54
|-
|22 ML
|13/45
|12/76
|0/87
|-
|And a quick sanity check
|-
|15ML with weapon
|0/54
|0/52
|0/58
|}

Although a few results are a little odd (like the alielf getting hit earlier than expected), it appears to be basing chance to hit while unarmed on having +20 muscle, which would also be in line with Fluxxdog's comment further up. I didn't notice any interesting results in how much they were hitting me for; I had ~50% DA and they hit for ~22, which I think would be [[Damage|correct]] since I had ~110 moxie. --[[User:Lizardking|Lizardking]] 17:55, 21 August 2011 (CEST)

Can you LTS with a surprising fist? How about shieldbutt? Given that the "shield" doesn't seem to count for hero, I'm guessing no on both counts, but it's worth checking. --[[User:Stannius|Stannius]] 22:32, 19 August 2011 (CEST)
* Using LTS while unarmed is nothing new. Useful though. And you can't shieldbutt. --[[User:Lizardking|Lizardking]] 03:38, 20 August 2011 (CEST)
** Misread the dates, but it seems LTS has been usable while unarmed since September 2009. The more you know. --[[User:Lizardking|Lizardking]] 03:47, 20 August 2011 (CEST)

==Defensive Bonus==

Is anyone seeing a defensive bonus?  I'm right now fighting in Barney's Bar, and when I get my Moxie shrunk down to 86, without any other enhancers, it seems like I'm not getting hit as often as I would expect. [[User:Qaianna|Qaianna]] 20:20, 25 August 2011 (CEST)

With the skill, I'm taking a bit less damage while unarmed.  Against gremlins whom I outmoxie by a fair margin, with 360 DA, I take about 5 less damage.  With 0 DA, about 10 less damage, with the same range as if I had no DA.  Seems like just DR 10?  Might be DR 11, of course, accounting for monster variance or something. --[[User:Starwed|Starwed]] 22:09, 13 September 2011 (CEST)