View source for Discussion/archive3

{{DiscussionArchive}}

__TOC__
==Question about Links..==
For some reason, pointing the cursor to some images don't display the right link. For example, if you look up "boring spaghetti" and hover the cursor over the pasta spoon, it says "pastaspoon.gif" instead of "pastamastery". Clicking on the spoon still takes you to Pastamastery though. I'm quite sure this was not an issue previously, so I don't know if it's a new feature or something.
--[[User:Arthas|Arthas]] 18:20, 15 September 2006 (CDT)
*Stop using IE.  Prob solved.  In IE (on [[boring spaghetti]]), The staus bar (when mousing over the recipe/spoon image) says <nowiki>http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Pastamastery</nowiki> and the link (clicking on it) takes you to [[Pastamastery]], but the tool tip (pop up mouseover usually yellow box thing), says "pastaspoon.gif".  In FF, the tool tip says <nowiki>http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Pastamastery</nowiki>.  For some dumb reason, IE decides telling you the image filename is more important than the target of the link. And this page is for dicussion of the front page, see [[Discussion]] for well, discussion. --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 19:14, 15 September 2006 (CDT)
*Also the equal sign is not a link (well it is in that the wiki defaultly links all images to their "image page"), but the other recipe images are having their default wiki functionality overridden to link to a page other than their "image page", so it's kind of tricky in getting alt texts correct beucase the link/image conflict, and because we don't use the standard anchor tags (<a>) on the wiki directly. It's a wiki style/formatted image in a template formatted in a wiki-style bracketted link.  Yeah it's a mess. See {{tl|click}}. --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 22:17, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!--[[User:Arthas|Arthas]] 05:29, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

==Item Number/Description IDs?==

Forgive my newbishness, but how exactly are item numbers and description number determined? For example, if the current last item number is 1750, does the next new item that we add to the wiki become number 1751? Or are these numbers predetermined (as I assume based on the gaps in the item list)?--[[User:Arthas|Arthas]] 23:04, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
*See [[Items by number]] for info on items numbers.  Description IDs (or an Item's Hash) are found in links to or the location of an item's description page.  For example ''SomeKoLServer''/desc_item.php?whichitem=1234567. --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 23:16, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
Thanks! --[[User:Arthas|Arthas]] 22:08, 16 September 2006 (CDT)

==Items by Autosell Price==
For your amusement, I present (implemented in the sandbox) a [[Items_by_autosell_price_(1-25_Meat)|list of all sellable items grouped by autosell price]]. I'd love to see this incorporated for real, but it probably should be broken into subpages. --[[User:Club|Club]] 19:36, 22 June 2006 (CDT)


I've created a newer version of this now:

<table><tr><th>Items by autosell price</th></tr><tr>
<td>1 - 25 | 26 - 50 | 51 - 75 | 76 - 100 | 101 - 150 | 151 - 50000</td></tr></table>

--[[User:Club|Club]] 16:46, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

:The horizontal lines are making me dizzy.  How about more like the [[:Category:Food (By Size)|food]] and [[:Category:Booze (By Potency)|drink]] lists? --[[User:Jonrock|Jonrock]] 18:59, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

:: Yeah, I could do that. Probably won't have time until late next week though. I was building off of JRSiebz's [[Talk:Items_by_autosell_price_(1-25_Meat)|comments on my original effort]]. --[[User:Club|Club]] 16:01, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
*I kinda like it as is. And it's delightfully obsessive!
&nbsp; --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 19:18, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

** "[D]elightfully obsessive"? Hmmm. I'll take my compliments where I can get them, I guess. --[[User:Club|Club]] 19:50, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
We've just had a [[TheKolWiki:Requested articles#Autosell|request]] for this article - [[User:Club|Club]], do you want to take this out of the sandbox and set this up as a real set of pages?  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 15:55, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

Okay, out of the sandbox. Still in boxed table form, pending more feedback. 

<table><tr><th>Items by autosell price</th></tr>
<tr>
<td> [[Items_by_autosell_price_(1-25_Meat)|1 - 25]] | [[Items_by_autosell_price_(26-50_Meat)|26 - 50]] | [[Items_by_autosell_price_(51-75_Meat)|51 - 75]] | [[Items_by_autosell_price_(76-100_Meat)|76 - 100]] | [[Items_by_autosell_price_(101-150_Meat)|101 - 150]] | [[Items_by_autosell_price_(151-50000_Meat)|151 - 50000]] </td></tr></table>

--[[User:Club|Club]] 18:03, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

*I made a couple of touch-up changes, but it looks good.  The icing on the cake would be to make the navagation template more like [[Items by number (1-99)|Items by number]]/[[Items by Name (1-Be)|Items by Name]].  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 20:50, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

==A Companion for {{tl|plural}}==
Just thought of an interesting idea to significantly simplify a few things on the wiki - a template, like {{tl|plural}}, to link an item name to its icon. This would eliminate the need to manually specify the icon when using {{tl|Acquire}}, as well as remove the need to specify it in all of the item pages (though it would make the ''name'' parameter in {{tl|useitem}} required, while it is currently used only for combat items and familiars). A similar (and vastly simpler) one could also be done for {{tl|AcquireEffect}}, though there'd be one minor snag with effects whose page names end with "(effect)" (where the template ends up doing something like <nowiki>effect=The Smile of Mr. A. (effect){{!}}The Smile of Mr. A.</nowiki>; in those cases, it might be a bit more friendly to have separate fields for "name" and "link", where it'll use "name" if "link" is not specified). For any items lacking entries in "{{tl|itemicon}}", it could default to using what's in the "image" parameter as a fallback (or perhaps give "image" priority over the template lookup) and display [[image:nopic2.gif]] if neither is present. Any opinions? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:36, 17 August 2006 (CDT)
*I recently tweaked {{tl|AcquireEffect}} so that <code>effect=The Smile of Mr. A.</code> links properly and everything and coincidentally removed the restriction you mentioned. "{{tl|itemicon}}" would be a great idea but would of course create performance issues similar to {{tl|plural}}. Those two template also act kinda like articles for plurals of the game and now icon in the game. One question, would this index item icons too?--{{:User:Dehstil}} 21:55, 17 August 2006 (CDT)
**I'm not sure what you're asking - define "index". Also, an itemicon template would only cause lag when it got updated which, with restrictions in place similar to what plural now has, would not be very often. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:08, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
***Sure this would work, but is there really a need? The format for plurals being displayed on item pages was at that point not yet created and creating a list in a template was a quick way to update all the pages without actually doing anything to them. Furthermore, the list can also be parsed or simply taken by others who wish to have such a source (for example, Picklish's mall buyer script). On the other hand the image icons are used only once and at this point are already set on all pages. Do we really want another list to keep updated? Something like taking note of the plural of a new item may easily be forgotten, while a missing image icon is hard to miss. It would definatley be convenient to simply type <nowiki>{{itemicon|Mr. Accessory}}</nowiki> and be able to generate the picture, but I don't think it is really worth the same effort. There was no outstanding source for plurality, item images are easy to discover and alreayd well known. --[[User:SomeStranger|<font color="orange">SomeStranger</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:SomeStranger|<font color="green">t</font>]]|[[Special:Contributions/SomeStranger|<font color="green">c</font>]])</sup> 20:49, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
****A belated agreement with all of SomeStranger's points above.  It's a nifty idea, but I see nothing but downsides to implementing it.  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 09:48, 20 August 2006 (CDT)
****The first thing I thought of was: A simulated database of image names, perused by wiki parser function, in a wiki template, all stored in a wiki database.  So a database in a "file" stored in another database.  Seems like one large performace nightmare which is just a complicated workaround instead just having a comprehensive item/effect/etc. public database which could be queried once. Is there a such a thing as a "database anyone can edit" which tracks histories/changes like mediawiki? (of course this db would just have KoL stuff in it, simulating/reverse engineering the "static" part of the kol database).  I mean wouldn't it be nice to have a simple editable-like-a-wiki public/directly-accessed database which was just a few tables in it (like items, effects, skills, etc.) Then an entry in "items" would have fields like ''image'', ''plural'', ''autosell'', ''quest'', ''cook'', ''smith'', etc., etc. etc.  Then AcquireItems could just query this db once, looking up the item by name and get whatever it needs to know, including the image.  Of course the public db would only consist of public [KoL] information, all normal "sensitive" stuff (logins, histories, etc.) would be in the usual "private" type dbs.. Actually this would make alot of wiki pages "simplier".  Imagine pages like "best drinks" automaticaly generated with a query, or with dynamically sortable ordering.  Sure someone could do this for a personal KoL site, but then it isn't a wiki.  How does one incorporate the dynamicalibility/felxibility of a "standard" website" with the openness/editablility/community of a wiki. (without creating an extremely messy, laggy, hard to edit, and just plain icky fake-database listing in a template?) I love the functionality/concept of how plurals work, but I am not keen on how it ''has'' to work.  Hmm,  Food for thought, hopefully it's not too undercooked.  --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 16:45, 20 August 2006 (CDT)
****I described such a structure at [[Talk:Best Drinks]], where an item's data is included on subpages of that item's page. Typing "<nowiki>{{:Lime/icon}}</nowiki>" would yield "lime.gif". I never really like that idea anyways though. Icons are easily updated as is.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 17:33, 20 August 2006 (CDT)
**Hmm, on second thought, this one does seem slightly less useful; how about one big project page containing information from "Category:Images, Category:Booze images, Category:Clan images, Category:Class Images, Category:Familiar-related images" along with "TheKolWiki:Image use policy" and list that information too, if anyone finds it useful. Otherwise, delete the categories and probably don't bother with a template then.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 22:15, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

=="<nowiki>the [[The Area Name|Area Name]]</nowiki>" versus "<nowiki>[[The Area Name]]</nowiki>"==
Some pages (namely, those edited by [[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]]) use the former method when linking to pages which start with "The", while others use the latter. We should be sticking with ''one'' method, so which one should we use? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:11, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
*I personally prefer the latter method, simply because it's easier, but have no strong opinions either way. --[[User:Alpaca|<font color="green">Alpaca</font>]] ([[User_talk:Alpaca|<sup style="color: blue; weight: bold;">T</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Alpaca|<sub style="color:purple; weight: bold;">C</sub>]]) 15:12, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
*I checked a random location, The Mall of Loathing, and, as suspected, we use lots of different formulations that depend on the context of the usage. In fact, we're not the only ones - Jick does as well (in the KoL announcements).  Anyhow, if the useage is a list, we consistantly use <nowiki>[[The Area Name]]</nowiki> (4 occurances).  If embedded in a sentence, there's lots of variations:
**<nowiki>[[The Mall of Loathing]]</nowiki> (6 occurances)
**<nowiki>[[the Mall of Loathing]]</nowiki> (3 occurances)
**the <nowiki>[[The Mall of Loathing|Mall]]</nowiki> (8 occurances)
**the <nowiki>[[The Mall of Loathing|mall]]</nowiki> (8 occurances)
**<nowiki>[[The Mall of Loathing|The Mall]]</nowiki> (2 occurances)
**Plus a bunch of misc links relating to "your store" or the like.
*Anyhow, I think that <nowiki>[[The Area Name]]</nowiki> is good for lists, but sentences should have flexibility. --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 17:15, 23 August 2006 (CDT)


*For lists, I think it's absolutely fine to do "<nowiki>[[The Area Name]]</nowiki>". Using the are name in a sentence, though, it looks much better (to me) to use "<nowiki>the [[The Area Name|Area Name]]</nowiki>", because the 'The' is usually not part of the area's name, which is why I've been going around editing them. People do this for names too, like "<nowiki>[[The Naughty Sorceress]]</nowiki>" and "<nowiki>[[The Toot Oriole]]</nowiki>"--[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]] 17:52, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

*Does there really need to be a standard for this? It looks like for lists, we do <nowiki>[[The Whatever]]</nowiki> uniformly, and there's no question about that. For sentences, let 'em flow how you think they flow best, and leave it at that. --[[User:Alpaca|<font color="green">Alpaca</font>]] ([[User_talk:Alpaca|<sup style="color: blue; weight: bold;">T</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Alpaca|<sub style="color:purple; weight: bold;">C</sub>]]) 17:54, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

*I think, with my pedantic mind, that unnecessary capitalisation is really, really bad. If I see one while browsng, I'll edit it. I haven't gone around specifically looking for them yet, but I might do soon.--[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]] 17:57, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

**I thought "the" ''was'' part of the name. We title pages thusly and usually refer to things like this: "I watched ''[[Wikipedia:The Day After Tomorrow|'''The''' Day After Tomorrow]]''." I generally fix <nowiki>[[the Mall of Loathing]] and [[The Mall of Loathing|Mall of Loathing]]</nowiki> because that's just silly. I usually leave alone <nowiki>[[The Mall of Loathing|mall]]</nowiki> if it's for flow purposes.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 22:05, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

*I don't see any reason why we'd need a standard for how it is done within a sentence, unless we're going to be TOTAL grammar nazis here.  If it obviously doesn't sound right however it's written, I can see changing it.  But what's the big deal?  In lists, things should be as they are in the game, which means it's up to Jick.  In sentences, just SOUND right.  --[[User:Jinya|jin]] 22:13, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
**Ha, crazy grammar nazis are fun to have around, unless you're writing something. Agreed, we dont really need to be discussing this type of stuff anyways.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 22:16, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

==The Voluntary Level-Reduction Booth==
"September 23, 2003: [[The Voluntary Level-Reduction Booth]] was removed."<br />What was it?--{{:User:Dehstil}} 00:01, 26 August 2006 (CDT)

Well before my time (infact, exactly a year), but it was effectively somewhere where you could voluntarily lower your level. If I remember rightly, this was due to the effect of being certain levels on gameplay. Not sure if that included PvP or not. 
--[[User:Aprocalypse|Aprocalypse]] 19:23, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

==New Combat Messages==
*So, how do you want to format the new combat messages? hit, miss, critical, fumble?<br />Edit: Or hit, critical, miss, fumble?--{{:User:Dehstil}} 23:36, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
**Or even critical, hit, fumble, miss, which I guess I like.  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 00:28, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
**Perhaps we should also add some sort of identifier so you can tell what the message type is - it may not be immediatly obvious.  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 00:42, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
***One option is to add them to {{tl|battletop}} along with the existing Hit/Miss lists - this would provide the advantage of being able to catch combats that are missing critical/fumble messages with conditional categories. I've added an example to [[Template Talk:Battletop]]. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 09:47, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
****I'm all for the template addition, which may or may not include tagging all the messages.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 18:54, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
**Critical, hit, fumble, miss sounds like a very elegant and logical order. Also, while we're talking about the battletop template, how about incorporating the "This adventure occurs at" into it somehow, since that sort of thing is present on EVERY page. --[[User:Alpaca|<font color="green">Alpaca</font>]] ([[User_talk:Alpaca|<sup style="color: blue; weight: bold;">T</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Alpaca|<sub style="color:purple; weight: bold;">C</sub>]]) 19:00, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
**Hmm, occurs at should be in there too then, still disagree about the order, but eh. Why is it more logical than hit, critical, miss, fumble? I think the more common type of message should go first before the rarer variations of hit and miss.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 19:28, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
***Both are logical in their own ways. Crit, hit, fumble, miss, goes from most "powerful" to least "powerful." --[[User:Alpaca|<font color="green">Alpaca</font>]] ([[User_talk:Alpaca|<sup style="color: blue; weight: bold;">T</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Alpaca|<sub style="color:purple; weight: bold;">C</sub>]]) 20:06, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
****Actually, that would be crit, hit, miss, fumble, IMO. --[[User:Jonrock|Jonrock]] 01:54, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
****Yeah, you're right.--[[User:Alpaca|<font color="green">Alpaca</font>]] ([[User_talk:Alpaca|<sup style="color: blue; weight: bold;">T</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Alpaca|<sub style="color:purple; weight: bold;">C</sub>]]) 05:41, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
*I just realized that every hit message corresponds with exactly one miss message.  Is there a way to regroup to show that better? --[[User:Jonrock|Jonrock]] 01:54, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
*There probably is, and we also need some sort of way to label messages as what they actually are - if I didn't know what was up, I probably wouldn't be able to tell.--[[User:Alpaca|<font color="green">Alpaca</font>]] ([[User_talk:Alpaca|<sup style="color: blue; weight: bold;">T</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Alpaca|<sub style="color:purple; weight: bold;">C</sub>]]) 05:41, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
*That's not always true...it usually is, but monsters don't necessarily have an exact one-to-one correspondence, and may have some hit messages that differ from their miss messages. Oh, and count me in the Hit, Crit, Miss, Fumble camp. I'm not a fan of adding to the battletop template, but a Template:CombatMessages might be in better order. Mostly, I'm worried about complexity...some of the existing templates already make it pretty difficult to update the site.--[[User:Foggy|Foggy]] 06:50, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
*A completely unscientific survey of half a dozen recent additions seems to show that one-shot editors are following HitCritMissFumb, so I prefer going with this flow for now. --[[User:Jonrock|Jonrock]] 11:06, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
*Well then, HitCritMissFumb is OK by me.  I don't care if we use a template or not ([[User:Foggy|Foggy]]'s point about template complexity, is well made), but we ''really'' need to tag the messages.  Let's see if we can finalize this before too long.  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 17:42, 1 September 2006 (CDT)
*You already have [[Template Talk:Battletop|my vote]] for tags. Maybe it could be something like this?
<div style="border:1px solid black; padding:1em; text-align:center;">
<div style="text-align:left;">'''Hit Messages:'''</div>

He claws your {{part}} with his big, sharp, pointy claws. {{ouch|cold}} {{element|cold}}

He gnaws on your {{part}} with his big, sharp, pointy teeth. {{ouch|cold}} {{element|cold}}

He gnaws on your stomach with his teeth, causing you abominable abdominal pain. {{ouch|cold}} {{element|cold}}

He puts your entire head in his mouth. Ew, and you thought these things smelled bad on the outside... {{ouch|cold}} {{element|cold}}


<div style="text-align:left;">'''Critical Hit Message:'''</div>

He lets loose a fiendish roar, which starts an avalanche high in the mountains. You get run over by at least twelve inches of snow (a licky boom boom down). {{ouch|cold}} {{element|cold}}


<div style="text-align:left;">'''Miss Messages:'''</div>

He tries to claw you, but you duck and make the mating call of the Knott Slanding, which frightens him.

He gnashes his teeth at you, but you act like an elfin dentist until he's frightened away.

He tries to gnaw on your stomach, but fails abominably. And abdominally.

He tries to put your head in his mouth, but stops when he catches a whiff of your hair.


<div style="text-align:left;">'''Fumble Message:'''</div>

He stomps toward you, but falls into a patch of deep snow. You kick back and enjoy watching him struggle to extricate himself.
</div>
As for templating it, I'm neutral.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 20:04, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

**Difficult to say, with the templating. I'm definitely all for a footer template, which would allow us to encompass the location, the clovertasticness, and possibly other things. With the combat text, I can definitely see how huge and cumbersome it might be, and I definitely think it would mandate its own template. On the other hand, looking at the proposed format above, while it looks very nice, all those div's aren't very newbie-friendly, and making it part of a template might help. --[[User:Alpaca|<font color="green">Alpaca</font>]] ([[User_talk:Alpaca|<sup style="color: blue; weight: bold;">T</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Alpaca|<sub style="color:purple; weight: bold;">C</sub>]]) 20:15, 1 September 2006 (CDT)
***In that case, adding to battletop would be my preference; an extra unnescessary template call is worse than a "complex" battletop template, especially if combat messages is always going to follow battletop and battletop is always going to be followed by combat messages.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 20:59, 1 September 2006 (CDT)
****What say we rename {{tl|battletop}} to {{tl|battle}} as part of adding the combat messages to it? After all, once it includes the hit/miss/etc. messages, it's more than just the top. Since meat/item/stat stuff is already held in other templates, those can probably stay outside of the battle template. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:01, 1 September 2006 (CDT)
*****In fact, looking back into ancient history, [[Template:Battle]] once existed, covering the entire combat page (but with exactly 3 item drop slots), right down to the footer. Perhaps this could be resurrected in a more versatile form, now that default parameter values are allowed... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:05, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

I was just fighting a skullbat which has a no hit moxie of 25, I have a modified moxie of 27, but was hit with 2 distinct messages.  One was an old normal hit message.  Are the no hit moxie tables just off, or do critical hits use multipule messages? --[[User:Univector llama|Univector llama]] 04:33, 2 September 2006 (CDT)
*You probably got hit (with a normal hit) because all monsters have a bit of variance in their stats, and no guides has reflected this change yet. I think I saw the value ±3 somewhere, which means the bat could have had a no hit of 28 moxie. --[[User:Nitramo | NitraMo]] <font size="-2">[http://www.freewebs.com/nitra_web/Save%20Adventures%20empty.xls SA] [http://www.freewebs.com/nitra_web/KoLTThelper/ TT]</font> 05:35, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

It seems to me that we may be stalled. In the interest of spurring further progress, I've gone ahead and updated the [[Knob Goblin Assistant Chef]] with tags, following the conventions in the example above (except that, for aesthetic reasons, italics were used instead of bolding).

==Missing Images==
For anyone using Firefox and having the problem with missing images, adding this filter to your AdBlock preferences should make them show up again:
:<code><nowiki>@@http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/images/*</nowiki></code>
That shouldn't be a link, just copy and paste. Not sure where the best place to put this would be, so I put it here. --[[User:Cor nocae|cor nocae]] 21:12, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
*That's what people get for using an over-aggressive filterset! ;-) --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 21:25, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

==Forum Spam==
Could a forum admin please clean up the [http://kol.thraeryn.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=11 spam] in the forums?  Thanks.  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 01:44, 1 September 2006 (CDT)
*Somebody apparently did it, and even since then, I found another spam topic to delete. I've been visiting the forums every so often, and each time have found a slew of spam. A phpBB update might help. --[[User:Alpaca|<font color="green">Alpaca</font>]] ([[User_talk:Alpaca|<sup style="color: blue; weight: bold;">T</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Alpaca|<sub style="color:purple; weight: bold;">C</sub>]]) 06:19, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

=="Fixed a typo."==
[http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php?title=Talk:The_Haunted_Conservatory&diff=prev&oldid=142276 This] and [http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php?title=Talk:The_Haunted_Conservatory&diff=next&oldid=142276 this] don't seem right to me.  What's the policy here? --[[User:Jonrock|Jonrock]] 03:58, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

:I see what you mean. In both cases, multiple paragraphs were deleted and the summary only said "Fixed a typo." In the first one you mention, the deleted section contained criticism of the person who deleted it (Jubbers). I think this is very dubious indeed. -- [[User:Old Ned|Old Ned]] 05:55, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
::I left Jubbers a [[User talk:Jubbers#Recent Edits|note]].  Hopefully a word to the wise is all that will be required.  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 08:31, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

:I don't see why incorrect information and flaming belongs on the [[Talk:The Haunted Conservatory]] page. The [[Malevolent Tofurkey|incorrect information]] will only confuse people, and anybody who wants to flame me should do so on [[User_Talk:Jubbers|my talk page]].--Jubbers 21:45, 1 October 2006 (CDT) 

==[[:Image:Haiku12.gif]]==
This image (torso with bulging muscles) seems to have gotten lost on the Coldfront servers (Firefox can't find the file at /kol/thekolwiki/images/b/bd/Haiku12.gif).  I think this happened before, but I can't remember what the fix was.  Does anyone else remember?  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 21:30, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
*Shift-reload?  It's showing fine for me. --[[User:Jonrock|Jonrock]] 21:34, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
Yeah, clearing the cache did it - thanks!  [[Image:Blush.gif]]  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 21:46, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

==Template:Combat broken==
Heads up: The display of elemental resistances in [[Template:Combat]] is not currently working. --[[User:Jonrock|Jonrock]] 14:00, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
*In reference to which page? It seems to work appropriately everywhere that I have looked...--[[User:SomeStranger|<font color="orange">SomeStranger</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:SomeStranger|<font color="green">t</font>]]|[[Special:Contributions/SomeStranger|<font color="green">c</font>]])</sup> 22:34, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
*Quietust's edit on October, 8 (handle '?' properly for element) busted it. I "fixed" it on the 10th, I just forgot to repost here.  ;-)--[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 22:47, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

==Chat Effects==
I think there should be a Category:Chat Effects, containing effects gained under such things as Gothy ''torment'', Jazz Soap ''~jazz hands~'', cans to binarrrca ''Ahoy, matey!'' and the sword after inappropriate prepositions.--[[User:Jubbers|Jubbers]] 02:25, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
*Disagree, as [[Category talk:Effects|discussed]] earlier today.  To repreat myself: Implementing a change that focuses on just "chat" effects and ignores all the other possible effects doesn't strike me as an optimal approach. Take a look at [[Category talk:Skills]] - there's been some preliminary discussion of ways to organize skills (which are similar to effects) - feel free to jump in the discussion. Another possible approach is to do something along the lines of what was done with [[Enchantments]]. Finally, I'm not much of a fan of category proliferation.  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 02:55, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
*What's wrong with a list of such effects on [[Chat]]?--{{:User:Dehstil}} 13:20, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
**Sounds good, let's do it.  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 02:07, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

==System Messages==
For some unknown (yet dumb) reason, all our custom system messages are no longer working.  If you look at [[Special:Allmessages]], they are not changed there, but if you go to an individual Mediawiki:''Message'' (on the ones we have customized), they show up as customized.  What's going on?  Fo example, the cutomized stuff on the menu is wrong, the warning note about not updating on a stat day, fill in comment box, etc. is not showing up.  All the custom messages, though there, are not displaying. It's rather annoying. --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 04:07, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
*Just so you know, I've been null editing to restore the proper messages.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 20:37, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

==Collection==
The display case collection page has changed URLs to www.jickenwings.org.  I tried to see where to change it, but couldn't seem to find it, so I'm leaving this comment.  The end.  --[[User:Suraimu|sl1me]] 10:34, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
*The url is embedded in the collection wiki extension, and you need file access to the wiki box change those, so pester the coldfront admins until they give in and do it ;-) Normal wiki admins just have the added power to block/delete/protect/revert. --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 17:43, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

==Talk Page Cleanup?==
Is it appropriate, at any point, to clean up a talk page to remove discussions that are no longer relevant to the current page? Specifically, I'm thinking of [[Talk:The Hermitage]] where there is some old discussion on how clovers used to work and a flame war with a small bit of actual discussion thrown in. (There's also some [[Discussion/archive#Profanity | totally unnecessary profanity]].) --[[User:Xcorvis|xcorvis]] 10:14, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
*If a talk page gets really long then it is okay to archive it but otherwise cleanup is not allowed. Naturally if there is vandalism on the page it should be removed (cleaned up), but disagreement is not vandalism. Use your own discretion for when to archive pages, and only do so if the old discussions really gets in the way of future ones and most importantly, the old content is old enough that there is no chance anyone would want to continue it for at least a month or until another change.--[[User:SomeStranger|<font color="orange">SomeStranger</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:SomeStranger|<font color="green">t</font>]]|[[Special:Contributions/SomeStranger|<font color="green">c</font>]])</sup> 12:00, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
**Is there a formal policy or community standard that says this? I couldn't find one. --[[User:Xcorvis|xcorvis]] 12:58, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
***Nope, it's just general wiki editquette (pun intended). I mean, I could go write it into official policy if you really wanted to, but.... In general just do what you think is right and people will correct you as you go along. Wiki editing is a learning experience. --[[User:SomeStranger|<font color="orange">SomeStranger</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:SomeStranger|<font color="green">t</font>]]|[[Special:Contributions/SomeStranger|<font color="green">c</font>]])</sup> 13:32, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
*Keeping old discussion around helps out immensely when someone else comes along with a similar question/issue/complaint.  You can just point to the previous discussion and save everyone a lot of time.  These days, I rarely even delete bad notes or references without moving them to the talk page and explaining why. --[[User:Jonrock|Jonrock]] 14:09, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

=={{tl|click}} vs. [[Special:Unusedimages]]==
*It seems that images only used with {{tl|click}} (such as on location pages, etc.) show up in [[Special:Unusedimages]].  Anyone know how we can prevent this so that seemingly unused images don't accidentially get deleted? --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 22:38, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
*Why don't we do what we did with disambiguation pages ([[TheKolWiki:Links to disambiguating pages]]) - just set up a page whose sole purpose is to use those images that we don't want to show up in [[Special:Unusedimages]]?  --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 22:46, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
**Someone changed {{tl|click}} to include the images the normal wiki way, but to have them not be displayed (display: none;  if I remember right) It's not ideal, but it did get them all off the unused images list. --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 17:05, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

==MediaWiki 1.8==
It would appear that one of the changes introduced in MediaWiki 1.8 disallows enclosing fragments of Wiki-style tables within templates ''and'' corresponding HTML fragments - 1.6 only disallowed the HTML part. This is going to require '''completely''' rewriting {{tl|useitem}}, not to mention numerous other templates. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] <small>([[User talk:Quietust|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Quietust|c]])</small> 17:26, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
*What other ones? I'm scouring through different types of pages looking for problems, and so far have only noticed {{tl|useitem}} messing up. --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 18:52, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
*{{tl|element}} seems to be messing up in instances where a second or second and third variable is passed to it. --[[User:JRSiebz|JRSiebz]] ([[User talk:JRSiebz|&#x260E;]]|[[Special:Contributions/JRSiebz|&#167;]]|[[Special:Listusers/sysop|&#8225;]]) 19:03, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::I fixed them both. I might have added an extra styling tag for the bonerdragon's post text (I can't remember if it was supposed to be centered) and the torpedo might have odd spacing, but besides that, it looks okay. So much for a complete rewrite ;). --{{User:SomeStranger/sig}} 22:22, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
Oh, now that the drama is over, I think there are a bunch of new magic words that have just been added to the wiki since we updated it. (Such as the <nowiki>__NEWSECTIONLINK__</nowiki> I just added to this page).--{{User:SomeStranger/sig}} 22:39, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:Just null edited all pages that contained "←" and "→" since they were displaying "?" instead, which seemed to fix it; I don't know if I missed any other special characters showing up as "?", probably not.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 22:49, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:Apparently some characters were changed to "�"; more null edits fixed that.--{{:User:Dehstil}} 23:57, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

==Wherein We Resolve The Most Contentious Issue On This Wiki==
I hereby assert, aver, and affirm, that on or about 11:11 PM PDT on Wednesday, 4 October, 2006, I, [http://www2.kingdomofloathing.com/showplayer.php?who=993642 jonrock], using a character that (a) has existed for not more than 80 days as of this writing; and therefore (b) has completed the [[Toot Oriole Quest]] in its most recent form as of the time the character was created; and (c) has [[ascension|ascended]] multiple times since the initial completion of said Quest; have adventured in the [[Noob Cave]] and acquired the ''supposedly'' really, really one-time item, the [[pile of shiny pebbles]].  Quod erat demonstrandum. --[[User:Jonrock|Jonrock]] 01:30, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

: That's contentious? I've done that in several ascensions. On a character that is &gt; 2 years, but has three times in the past month, I was able to get a pile of shiny pebbles just now. First adventure in the cave. Maybe my quest log will stop saying I need to visit Toot. (Yup, it was on current quests when I logged in, but is gone now.) --[[User:Club|Club]] 12:38, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

[[Category:Discussion]]