Sombrero vs. Volleyball: Difference between revisions

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{{Rewrite|The whole thing.}}
{{rewrite|The section on Wild Hares needs to be updated. The Bandersnatch examples need to be re-written. The ML Stat formula is also incorrect (ML/3 not ML/4) meaning the math needs to be redone }}
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The two most popular stat-gain familiars can be pigeonholed into two categories: volleyballs and sombreros. For an analysis of the best familiar equipment for stat gains while using such familiars, see the [[Blood-Faced Volleyball]] and [[Hovering Sombrero]] articles. The present page is concerned with comparing volleyballs against sombreros.
The two most popular stat-gain familiars can be pigeonholed into two categories: volleyballs and sombreros. For an analysis of the best familiar equipment for stat gains while using such familiars, see the [[Blood-Faced Volleyball]] and [[Hovering Sombrero]] articles. The present page is concerned with comparing volleyballs against sombreros. The main takeaway is that deciding which familiar to use is dependent on [[Monster Level]].


==Sombrero vs. Volleyball Formula==
In the formulas below, VW is volleyball weight, SW is sombrero weight, and ML is monster level.
In the formulas below, VW is volleyball weight, SW is sombrero weight, and ML is monster level.


==Sombrero vs. Volleyball Formula==
The formula for extra stats given by the Hovering Sombrero of weight SW is:
 
With the rollout of NS13, the formula for extra stats given by the Hovering Sombrero of weight SW is:


<center>stats = sqrt(SW)*[1 + sqrt(ML - 4)]/10</center>
<center>stats = (ML/4)*(0.1 + 0.005*SW)</center>
<center>(The Sombrero grants 10% of the stats you receive normally, plus an additional 0.5% per pound of Sombrero)</center>


And for the Blood-faced Volleyball:
And for the Blood-faced Volleyball:


<center>stats = sqrt(VW)</center>
<center>stats = 2 + VW/5</center>


To find the point where the sombrero matches the volleyball, we must solve for monster level in terms of the two weights. Thus, we start with:
To find the point where the sombrero matches the volleyball, we must solve for monster level in terms of the two weights. Thus, we start with:


<center>sqrt(VW) = sqrt(SW)*[1 + sqrt(ML - 4)]/10</center>
<center>2 + VW/5 = (ML/4) * (0.1 + 0.005*SW)</center>


However, given that we have obtained both (or neither) familiar equipment, as well as assuming that any equipment/buffs we want can be switched between them (e.g., [[wax lips]], [[Leash of Linguini (skill)|Leash of Linguini]]), we can say that:
However, given that we have obtained both (or neither) familiar equipment, as well as assuming that any equipment/buffs we want can be switched between them (e.g., [[wax lips]], [[Leash of Linguini (skill)|Leash of Linguini]]), we can say that:


<center>sqrt(VW) = sqrt(SW)</center>
<center>VW = SW</center>


Setting that value equal to W, we substitute:
Setting that value equal to W, we substitute:


<center>W = W[1 + sqrt(ML - 4)]/10</center>
<center>2 + W/5 = (ML/4) * (0.1 + 0.005 * W)</center>
 
and then, since W/W = 1:


<center>10 = 1 + sqrt(ML - 4)</center>
divide through by (0.1 + 0.005*W) to get:


followed by:
<center>(2 + W/5) / (0.1 + 0.005 * W) = ML/4</center>


<center>9 = sqrt(ML - 4)</center>
Re-arranging and multiplying through by 4, we get:


then:
<center>ML = 4 * (2 + W/5) / (0.1 + 0.005*W)</center>


<center>81 = ML - 4</center>
===Interpretation===


and at last:
This cannot be simplified any more until either a weight (W) or Monster Level (ML) are provided.  The below chart showing break-even points plots this formula graphically.


<center>85 = ML</center>
It should be noted that with equally weighted familiars, a Sombrero will always be better than a Volleyball ''at 160 or more Monster Level.''  This is because the limit as W approaches infinity of the ML formula above is 160.
* According to Wolfram Alpha, <pre>limit (4 * (2 + W/5) / (0.1 + 0.005*W)) as W->infinity</pre> = [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=limit+%284+*+%282+%2B+W%2F5%29+%2F+%280.1+%2B+0.005*W%29%29+as+W-%3Einfinity 160 Monster Level].


So, if you are fighting monsters of 85 ML or higher, bring along your Sombrero as opposed to your equally weighted Volleyball.
Solving the formula for 1 pound familiars, it can also be noted that with equally weighted familiars, ''at 83 or less Monster Level,'' a Volleyball is always better than a Sombrero.


===Different Weights===
== Charts ==
At what weight does using a sombrero make sense at ML monster level, instead of using a volleyball of weight VW? The answer is simple:
* Comparing different weight Sombreros and Volleyballs is much more useful than comparing equal weight ones, but figuring out where to stop using one familiar and start using another can be tricky.  The following graph attempts to make that process easier by giving a visualization of the familiars at various weights and Monster Levels, showing how many stats they give.
 
* [[Image:bugbear_vs_sombrero_may_2014_update_thumb.png|link=http://ben.bloomroad.com/kol/bugbear_vs_sombrero_may_2014_update.png|Baby Bugged Bugbear (wearing a balaclava) vs Volleyball vs Sombrero]]
<center>SW = 100VW/(1 + sqrt(ML-4))<sup>2</sup></center>
* The Sombrero's stat cap will always be higher as compared to an equivalent weight volleyball (or baby bugged bugbear wearing a balaclava). The following graph shows those break-even Monster Levels, and how many stats you'd get from the Sombrero (or Volleyball/Bugbear) at the break-even point of ML for each weight.
 
*[[Image:bugbear_vs_sombrero_breakeven_thumb.png|link=http://ben.bloomroad.com/kol/bugbear_vs_sombrero_breakeven.png|Breakeven ML for Volleyball (and Bugbear) vs. Sombrero]]
To determine at what monster level a certain weight volleyball is equal to a certain weight sombrero you can use the following formula:
 
<center>ML = (sqrt(100VW/SW)-1)<sup>2</sup> + 4</center>
 
===Charts===
*[http://ben.bloomroad.com/kol/volley_vs_sombrero.png Volleyball vs Sombrero]
*[http://ben.bloomroad.com/kol/tuned_bander_vs_sombrero.png Tuned Bander vs Sombrero]
*[[Image:bugbear_vs_sombrero_thumb.png|link=http://ben.bloomroad.com/kol/bugbear_vs_sombrero.png|Baby Bugged Bugbear (wearing a balaclava) vs Volleyball vs Sombrero]]


==Examples==
==Examples==
In the examples below, q is VW/SW, and is useful in establishing at what Monster Level the Sombrero is more beneficial.
Example: Picking a weight such as 20 pounds gives: ML = 4*(2+20/5) / (0.1 + 0.005*20) = 4*(6) / (0.2) = 120.  So when both the Volleyball and Sombrero are 20 pounds: ''if you are fighting monsters more than 120 ML'', use the '''sombrero'''; and ''less than 120 ML'', use the '''volleyball'''.


Example: When the volleyball/sombrero weights are equal, ''VW/SW''=1, so this formula reduces to ''m''=100-20+5=85, as in the first section.
==Why does a Sombrero always win at ''some'' monster level?==
Because the Sombrero's stat bonuses grow with monster level, and the volleyball's does not.


Example: Suppose we want to compare a [[Llama Lama]]'s stat-gains to the stat-gains from an equal-weight sombrero-type (say, a [[Baby Sandworm]]). The llama has the stat gain of a volleyball of half its weight, so ''q''=1/2. This means that ''ML''=100(1/2)-20(1/2)<sup>1/2</sup>+5=55-20(1/2)<sup>1/2</sup>=40.85. (Of course, this isn't the whole story, since a [[glimmering roc feather]] gives stats and [[agua de vida]] doesn't, but it means that llamas are generally preferable to sandworms ''at least'' when fighting monsters of level 40 or below.)
Computer scientists define the growth of a function using [[Wikipedia:Big O notation|Big O notation]], which describes the behavior of a function as its argument gets arbitrarily large.  In the case of the stat gains for volleyballs and sombreros, volleyball stat gains are constant at a given volleyball weight.  They are ''O''(''v'') = ''O''(''C'') = ''O''(''1'').  However, the sombrero formula contains a non-constant factor in its numerator, the monster level, so its stat gains are ''O''(''m''), where ''m'' is the monster level.  Since sombrero stat gains always grow as ''m'' increases and volleyball stat gains are independent of ''m'', with a large enough ''m'', the sombrero will always outperform the volleyball.  This ignores the fact that the sombrero has a stat cap, because in order to reach the current stat cap of 230, a volleyball would need to weigh 230 = 2 + w/5 => w = 228*5 = 1140 pounds, which is unrealistic.


Example: Say we want to compare a [[Frumious Bandersnatch]] with its [[aquaviolet jub-jub bird|appropriately]] [[charpuce jub-jub bird|tuned]] [[crimsilion jub-jub bird|equipment]] to a sombrero, and that we only care about the familiar's effect on our main stat. To make our lives easier, we'll say that the sombrero has the same weight as the bandersnatch after equipment is taken into account. A bandersnatch gives double the main stat experience as a same-weight volleyball; if you look at the volleyball-weight formula, you'll see that this means it's like a volleyball that's four times as heavy (it gives 2(''VW''<sup>1/2</sup>)=(4''VW'')<sup>1/2</sup> experience at weight ''VW''). So ''q''=4, which means ''ML''=100(4)-20(4)<sup>1/2</sup>+5=365. That is, the sombrero only starts matching an equal-weight bandersnatch at monster level 365, which is unlikely to occur very often in an ascension context.
Under extreme conditions, the [[Wild Hare|Wild Hare]]'s ability to provide extra rollover adventures will provide more (net) substats per adventure than either the volleyball or the sombrero because the benefit from the Wild Hare is ''O''(''m''). Since this requires an infinite supply of level 9200+ monsters, it's really only feasible for high-stat characters fighting against scaling monsters such as the [[Sloppy Seconds Diner]] (cap at 11,111 ml), [[Fernswarthy's Basement]] and [[Special Monsters|Crimbo monsters]].
 
==Why does a Sombrero always win at ''some'' monster level?==
Computer scientists define the growth of a function using [[Wikipedia:Big O notation|Big O notation]], which describes the behavior of a function as its argument gets arbitrarily large.  In the case of the stat gains for volleyballs and sombreros, volleyball stat gains are constant at a given volleyball weight.  They are ''O''(''v''<sup>1/2</sup>) = ''O''(''C'').  However, the sombrero formula contains a non-constant factor in its numerator, the square root of the monster level, so its stat gains are ''O''(''m''<sup>1/2</sup>), where ''m'' is the monster level.  Since sombrero stat gains always grow as ''m'' increases and volleyball stat gains are independent of ''m'', with a large enough ''m'', the sombrero will always outperform the volleyball.


Under extreme conditions, the [[Wild Hare|Wild Hare]]'s ability to provide extra rollover adventures will provide more (net) substats per adventure than either the volleyball or the sombrero because the benefit from the Wild Hare is ''O''(''m'').  Since this requires an infinite supply of level 4000+ monsters, it's really only feasible for high-stat characters fighting against scaling monsters such as [[Hamburglaris Shield Generator]] (cap at 5000 ml), [[Fernswarthy's Basement]] and [[Special Monsters|Crimbo monsters]].


[[Category:Familiars| Sombrero vs Volleyball]]
[[Category:Familiars| Sombrero vs Volleyball]]
[[Category:Game Mechanics]]
[[Category:Game Mechanics]]

Latest revision as of 02:34, 3 November 2022

The Hermit humbly requests that this page be rewritten or expanded.

The section on Wild Hares needs to be updated. The Bandersnatch examples need to be re-written. The ML Stat formula is also incorrect (ML/3 not ML/4) meaning the math needs to be redone

The two most popular stat-gain familiars can be pigeonholed into two categories: volleyballs and sombreros. For an analysis of the best familiar equipment for stat gains while using such familiars, see the Blood-Faced Volleyball and Hovering Sombrero articles. The present page is concerned with comparing volleyballs against sombreros. The main takeaway is that deciding which familiar to use is dependent on Monster Level.

Sombrero vs. Volleyball Formula

In the formulas below, VW is volleyball weight, SW is sombrero weight, and ML is monster level.

The formula for extra stats given by the Hovering Sombrero of weight SW is:

stats = (ML/4)*(0.1 + 0.005*SW)
(The Sombrero grants 10% of the stats you receive normally, plus an additional 0.5% per pound of Sombrero)

And for the Blood-faced Volleyball:

stats = 2 + VW/5

To find the point where the sombrero matches the volleyball, we must solve for monster level in terms of the two weights. Thus, we start with:

2 + VW/5 = (ML/4) * (0.1 + 0.005*SW)

However, given that we have obtained both (or neither) familiar equipment, as well as assuming that any equipment/buffs we want can be switched between them (e.g., wax lips, Leash of Linguini), we can say that:

VW = SW

Setting that value equal to W, we substitute:

2 + W/5 = (ML/4) * (0.1 + 0.005 * W)

divide through by (0.1 + 0.005*W) to get:

(2 + W/5) / (0.1 + 0.005 * W) = ML/4

Re-arranging and multiplying through by 4, we get:

ML = 4 * (2 + W/5) / (0.1 + 0.005*W)

Interpretation

This cannot be simplified any more until either a weight (W) or Monster Level (ML) are provided. The below chart showing break-even points plots this formula graphically.

It should be noted that with equally weighted familiars, a Sombrero will always be better than a Volleyball at 160 or more Monster Level. This is because the limit as W approaches infinity of the ML formula above is 160.

  • According to Wolfram Alpha,
    limit (4 * (2 + W/5) / (0.1 + 0.005*W)) as W->infinity
    = 160 Monster Level.

Solving the formula for 1 pound familiars, it can also be noted that with equally weighted familiars, at 83 or less Monster Level, a Volleyball is always better than a Sombrero.

Charts

  • Comparing different weight Sombreros and Volleyballs is much more useful than comparing equal weight ones, but figuring out where to stop using one familiar and start using another can be tricky. The following graph attempts to make that process easier by giving a visualization of the familiars at various weights and Monster Levels, showing how many stats they give.
  • Baby Bugged Bugbear (wearing a balaclava) vs Volleyball vs Sombrero
  • The Sombrero's stat cap will always be higher as compared to an equivalent weight volleyball (or baby bugged bugbear wearing a balaclava). The following graph shows those break-even Monster Levels, and how many stats you'd get from the Sombrero (or Volleyball/Bugbear) at the break-even point of ML for each weight.
  • Breakeven ML for Volleyball (and Bugbear) vs. Sombrero

Examples

Example: Picking a weight such as 20 pounds gives: ML = 4*(2+20/5) / (0.1 + 0.005*20) = 4*(6) / (0.2) = 120. So when both the Volleyball and Sombrero are 20 pounds: if you are fighting monsters more than 120 ML, use the sombrero; and less than 120 ML, use the volleyball.

Why does a Sombrero always win at some monster level?

Because the Sombrero's stat bonuses grow with monster level, and the volleyball's does not.

Computer scientists define the growth of a function using Big O notation, which describes the behavior of a function as its argument gets arbitrarily large. In the case of the stat gains for volleyballs and sombreros, volleyball stat gains are constant at a given volleyball weight. They are O(v) = O(C) = O(1). However, the sombrero formula contains a non-constant factor in its numerator, the monster level, so its stat gains are O(m), where m is the monster level. Since sombrero stat gains always grow as m increases and volleyball stat gains are independent of m, with a large enough m, the sombrero will always outperform the volleyball. This ignores the fact that the sombrero has a stat cap, because in order to reach the current stat cap of 230, a volleyball would need to weigh 230 = 2 + w/5 => w = 228*5 = 1140 pounds, which is unrealistic.

Under extreme conditions, the Wild Hare's ability to provide extra rollover adventures will provide more (net) substats per adventure than either the volleyball or the sombrero because the benefit from the Wild Hare is O(m). Since this requires an infinite supply of level 9200+ monsters, it's really only feasible for high-stat characters fighting against scaling monsters such as the Sloppy Seconds Diner (cap at 11,111 ml), Fernswarthy's Basement and Crimbo monsters.