Talk:Coy to the Hurled
Suggests DODGING. Maybe MOXIE increaser or DAMAGE ABSORBTION/REDUCTION? Or INITIATIVE. I dunno. Just giving my 2 cents. :)
--Guissmo 11:07, 1 December 2006 (CST)
Argus suggested it might increase the chance of running from battle. Just removed that from the main article and put it here because it's not yet settled. --Risrepkel 02:35, 2 December 2006 (CST)
Gulper suggested it might improve chances of dodging ranged attacks. Reposted here from article...again. --Risrepkel 02:19, 3 December 2006 (CST)
I think it lowers the MP cost of skills/buffs by 1, at least I cannot explain the lower MP cost I am experiencing by anything else at the moment. --whizky
I got coy to the hurled again today and it didn't lower MP cost, so the above is rubbish, unless it gives random effects... --whizky 18:21, 15 December 2006 (CET)
Crawly says it confers +2 damage reduction. Conclusive enough to put in the article? —Dentarthurdent(T,C) 04:47, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
- I'm not sure, but I suspect Crystalline is being sarcastic when she says, "Not that I don't trust you, seeing as you're one of the most respected spades in the game." I've always seen Crawly as a forum troll looking for any chance to insult people (especially if he can get the second post in a new thread). Here, I can't tell if he's trolling or serious, but if he's trolling he'll have a great laugh seeing his "spading" show up in the wiki. Does anyone trust him on this? --Crowther 11:55, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
- Maybe I'm confused, but I thought Crawly is one of the most respected spades in the game. Prestige 19:20, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
- I was entirely too lazy to do conclusive testing, so conceptually, my numbers could be off. However, I am entirely sure I was seeing a damage reduction of 2, and the numbers did not indicate it was a result of additional absorption (this is where I lack conclusive numbers). Stick it in with a "Needs confirmation" if you'd like.. all the same to me. I know what it does. (;
--Crawly2 21:43, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
Damage Reduction Theory
Ok, here's some raw data for Coy to the Hurled. Was adventuring in the haunted bedroom, and tested the damage reduction theory.
familiar: 6lb ragamuffin imp, so that shouldn't have had an effect. frat outfit (no accessories, 163 buffed moxie) mahogany nightstand 31 33 28 31 32 27 31 31 30 158 moxie (I then wore the mesh cap, as I met a white nightstand which couldn't hit me) white nightstand 18 24 21 22 24 24 26 24 29 26 23 29 24 27 27 24 23 26 22 22 24 23 22 21 20 mahogany 24 27 27 27 23 29 24 29 27 24 25 22 21 21 22 19 19 20 22 remains of a jilted mistress 31 28 32
It seems kind of odd that the mahogany's damage should decrease once I lowered my moxie. Am too tired to crunch the numbers, so have fun ;) --SohumB 04:13, 6 September 2007 (CDT)
- Increased clothing power acts as Damage Absorption, so it isn't surprising the mesh cap decreased the damage. Did you record damage without the effect as a baseline? Were you running/wearing +ML or other absorption effects? I guess someone could do a guesstimate based on Weapon Damage#Monster Damage Formula and the MLs from The Haunted Bedroom. --Bagatelle 16:50, 8 September 2007 (CDT)
No, I didn't check damage without the effect (sorry, I thought that we knew the formulas well enough by now), and no, I wasn't running any +ML or absorption effects. SohumB 19:42, 9 September 2007 (CDT)
- According to the pages I linked to above, the final damage inflicted by a monster is
(1 - AbsorptionFrac) *
(
max(0, MonsterAttack - PlayerMoxie) +
random(0.20, 0.25) * MonsterAttack -
DR
)
- The only random part of the formula is the 20-25% of the monster's attack. Hence the difference between the maximum and minimum observable values of damage should be equal to 5% of the monster attack strength times the absorption effect. For your mesh cap mahogany/white combats, both monsters have an attack value of approximately 160; 5% of which is 8. No matter what your absorption is, the observed ranges of 10 and 11 for your mesh cap data are too high. So either I'm misunderstanding the formulae or the equation was updated for NS13 and needs to be re-spaded. --Bagatelle 22:17, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
I tried tackling a couple of the assumed DR effects, and managed to get a fairly decent method using the gremlins and high level character.
I tried with Coy to the Hurled active, and got some weird results. The high end of the damage taken was consistent with a DR+0, but the low end would have been more consistent with DR+4.
This suggests that, much like Frosty the Hitman, the DR is variable...anywhere from 0-4. But more spading would be needed.--Foggy 13:18, 1 October 2007 (CDT)
- I spent a few turns in the basement spading this. Found a DR of exactly 0 on every adventure where I had a significant data size, with a DR of 1 implied in one adventure. Problem is, I died early in that combat and might have missed a damage point. This is done again in the basement, where ML variations are ignored.--QuantumNightmare 10:21, 6 October 2007 (CDT)
Against batwinged gremlins, wearing a battered hubcap and bulletproof corduroys so I could last longer. Not recording any stench attacks due to the elemental resistance on the hubcap. All variables remained the same between Coy/Not Coy.
| Coy | Not Coy |
|---|---|
| 14 | 18 |
| 12 | 14 |
| 17 | 15 |
| 15 | 13 |
| 14 | 15 |
| 18 | 18 |
| 13 | 16 |
| 16 | 14 |
| 14 | 16 |
| 17 | 18 |
| 14 | 16 |
| 12 | 14 |
| 12 | 14 |
| 14 | 14 |
| 17 | 18 |
| 13 | 17 |
| 16 | 12 |
| 17 | 14 |
| 15 | 16 |
| 18 | 12 |
| 11 | 17 |
| 18 | 13 |
| 13 | 18 |
| 16 | 13 |
| 12 | 12 |
| 11 | 16 |
- Average Coy: 14.576
- Average Not Coy: 15.115
Not much of a difference... But 11 appears a few times while Coy, but not at all while not Coy. 18 being the maximum damage in both samples would also go along with it being possible for it to be 0 DR. --TechSmurf 02:32, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
--- Unless something has changed, damage absorption is applied before damage reduction, non? Having 170 absorption will reduce damage by a bit over 30%, whereas having 340 (if you have Tao) will reduce it close to 50%, so you'll need to account for that in your data. In order to test this accurately, I think one would need to adventure without any other effects that might taint the data, particularly ones granting damage absorption, as the rounding issues involved with absorption are not yet fully known. Based on your current data, though, and assuming you have Tao, I'd say at least 1 DR is pretty conclusive. --Crawly2 13:52, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
- Plus, how many individual gremlins did you fight? A small (1 DR) change could have been due to monster level variation, if you randomly fought a "strong" gremlin with coy and a "weak" gremlin without it. I'm bringing this up because my constant ML basement testing (done with 0 DA) found no DR whatsoever.--QuantumNightmare 14:37, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
New data: I've been playing around with this for a bit, and I think the folks who've been suggesting variable DR are right. I've been using a vanilla high-level PM with all the PM skills (none should impact DA/DR, I think? If they do, I'm stupid). Equipment: Ring of Aggravate Monster (+5ML), Squeaky Staff (+6ML, +3 mys). Buffs: Coy to the Hurled, Leash, Phat Loot, Empathy Familiar: None Methodology: I've been fighting bunnies (Base ML1, modified ML 12) with high moxie and tracking critical hits. ML modifiers do not impact its ML variation, and a bunny should have a base variation of 0, I believe (again, if this is wrong, disregard the data). Expected results: Consistently take 2-3 damage (2.4 - 3 to be exact) Actual results: I was able to take 1, 2, and 3 damage from these bunnies. I was mostly getting 1s, and I only saw one 3, but I didn't get too many data points because getting them to critical-hit me takes a while.
Assuming my assumptions are correct, this implies variable DR. If my assumptions are not correct, this means I should probably look stuff up before I 'spade' :(
--Crawly2 05:08, 15 October 2007 (CDT)
