Talk:Suckerpunch

I'm pretty sure this is a delevel and not a stun, as I used it several times in a row on the Crimbo monsters and they were still attacking, but after about 5 uses they stopped hitting me. Since I have no real knowledge of how to spade this, nor very much inclination to try unless the thousands of other Disco Bandits don't want to, I'm gonna just write this note and turn it over to more dedicated spades. --Variatas 02:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

• You should be able to tell if it is a stun or not pretty easily. A stun will prevent them from attack, a la the Levitating Potato. For delevel spading methods, see Spading#Deleveling. I don't think the method there will apply to crimbo monsters, though, since their defense scales to your muscle, so their defense will exceed your muscle/4 by about a factor of 4. I think you can still do it, though, since they should have their attack scaling to your moxie, meaning they should have about a 50% base chance of hitting you. 4 or 5 uses before they miss you (except on criticals, presumably), would indicate a delevel of either -1 or -2. -2 most likely. Which is pretty good, compared to Disco Eye-Poke. --Flargen 02:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

• Same question I've asked elsewhere: Does the skill have an image? What is it, add it, etc. --Unnatural20 04:05, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
  • It's the same picture as Hernia. I added it. --BongBob 07:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Deleveling spading

using a level 26 DB, I tried suckerpunch out, and it appears to lower MD by 1 every time. (I tested against a monster in the Black Forest over 20 turns). I tested it against the gremlins, with 260 in DA. Despite suckerpunching 20 straight moves, the damage still appeared to remain as high as 24. (A -10 to MA, even with 260 in DA, should move the damage down slightly).

So delevels -1 MD.--Foggy 19:58, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

It definitely reduces both attack and defense every time. Best way to see it is the dwarf outfit.--Ekeinos2 15:10, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

• Read Foggy's post. It doesn't decrease attack. Also, from what I understand of how the dwarf outfit works, the monster attack is only displayed at the beginning of combat as shown here. You probably got the monster attack mixed up with the monster HP --CG1:t,c,e 00:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Oops, you are right. I guess the helmet wouldn't help so much with this, since it doesn't give a reading every round. However, this skill does indeed reduce monster attack as is evident from the fact that monsters stop being able to hit you. Example test: fluffy bunnies with +15 ML and your moxie reduced to 1, spam suckerpunch. The flaw in Foggy's method is that the part "20 to 25% of Monster Attack" in the monster damage formula (see Weapon Damage) always uses the original attack. This is evident from the fact that even if you delevel a gremlin that you outmoxie by say 50 (eg. many disco face stabs) it keeps doing the same damage. This has been known for a long time (though not before NS13 since we didn't have the always hitting gremlins to observe it naturally) and although it looks buggy, it isn't going to get fixed any time soon; I guess we should call it a feature, and disappoint the bad moon DBs that face the junkyard. In practice, one shouldn't use damage from monsters that have smaller attack than your moxie to determine monster attack after delevelling. The Diff bit in the formula does, however, use the delevelling, so you can safely use damage from a stronger monster than you. --Ekeinos2 16:08, 8 October 2009 (UTC)