Talk:Pride

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+ familiar weight, -adventures from food/decresed stomach capacity?--Dwarfenrifle 00:13, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

    • No +familiar weight on the account I'm babysitting. +stats, maybe? --Ricket 01:54, 27 July 2007 (CDT)
      • Hmmm... Reduces max fullness, maybe? --Keejus 11:58, 29 July 2007 (CDT)
        • Nope. Can still eat to 15. I like the -adventures from food idea. They seem kinda low. --Ricket 16:25, 30 July 2007 (CDT)
          • Since getting this skill, I'm getting 2 adventures per fortune cookie instead of 1. I have no other Evil skills. --PlatypusNinja 00:08, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
            • With Pride alone, fortune cookies are giving me usually 2, but sometimes 1, adventure. There's still some room for spading here. But still, for 1.5 to 2.0 adventures per fullness with no cooking or farming (apart from meat), I'm not complaining! --Greycat 14:20, 17 August 2007 (CDT)
            • But then I bought Gluttony, and now fortune cookies are back to 1 adventure...  :( --PlatypusNinja 11:43, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
          • I can confirm this. I have pride and no other skills. Two spooky mushrooms yielded 1 and 2 adventures. Since the range for spooky is apparently 2-3... that would seem to go along with the -adventures train of though. --CrimsonMirage 22:09, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
            • 3 adventures from a goat cheese pizza? Yeah, -adventures. --NoHassles 20:12, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
              • Umm, 3 adventures is an expected yield from goat cheese pizza... that doesn't really confirm or support the -adventures theory --alacrity 17:05, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

Hidden positive effect?

Since getting this skill, I've been getting 2 adventures from eating a handful of cranberries and another 2 from eating a ghuol egg. Someone else also was getting 2 adventures per fortune cookie instead of one....

So the "gotta watch your weight" probably means you get extra adventures from non-filling food and fewer from the good stuff.

  • On last Monday's radio show, they basically said that one skill was supposed to reduce adv from food, and the fact that it increased adv gain from low yield food was a bug. --Prestige 01:13, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
  • I just recently ascended Bad Moon and picked up Pride. Since then I've eaten roughly 28 Fortune Cookies and have only gotten one adventure per, so I've removed the comment about less filling foods having a hidden positive effect, because it appears that, per the previous note, the bug has been fixed. Bakapyrite 12:41, 29 August 2007 (CDT)
    • While this particular bug was fixed, there is most likely still a positive effect from Pride. Due to the way adventure gains from food are calculated (Size and Quality), Pride should have the effect of decreasing the maximum range of foods while increasing the average yield. This would be accomplished by making the lowest value of the range much less likely, by giving a hidden +1 adventures a significant portion of the time.--QuantumNightmare 13:22, 29 August 2007 (CDT)
    • I'm attempting to digest, so to speak, this information and I think I follow it for the most part. If Pride has an X% reduction in the Quality of food and, for example, reduces a 3 Quality food to 2.6, it will technically give more Adventures per Fullness than before because instead of rolling a 1d3 and giving the answer, it's rolling a 1d2, and when it rolls a 2, it has a 60% chance of instead giving you a 3, making 3 adventures more likely than 2 adventures (though both would still be less likely than 1 adventure). However, the parenthetical note on Pride's page seemed to be more related to the earlier notes about eating a Fortune Cookie (and other foods) and gaining two adventures instead of just one. Upon further consideration, one might speculate that somehow this was the very factor causing the extra adventures to be generated, which from my experience appears to have been fixed. Whether that's true or not, I'm against re-adding the parenthetical note as it was until hard data can show that there are, in fact, foods whose Adventure per Fullness are boosted by Pride, and then the list of those foods should probably be noted on the page. Bakapyrite 14:38, 29 August 2007 (CDT)
      • But wait, I was just running the numbers in my head and I'm wondering, does a fractional reduction of Quality really give a higher ApF yield? For a hypothetical Fullness 1, Quality 3 food, the chances of getting 1, 2, or 3 fullness are all 33.33....%. For the hypothetical Fullness1, Quality 2.6 food, the chance of getting 1 is 50%, the chance of getting 2 is 20%, and the chance of getting 3 is 30%. This seems weighted towards the extremes, yes, but especially towards the low extreme. No? (And furthermore, if Pride is giving something like a 50% reduction in Quality, that would make Q2 into Q1, Q3 into Q1.5 etc, whereas a 25% reduction would lead to more weird situations, which underlines the need to spade what Pride is actually doing first.) Bakapyrite 14:52, 29 August 2007 (CDT)
  • You are almost correct here. A food of Size 1 and Quality 2.6 would roll 1d2, and add one 60% of the time. Note, this is 60% of the time, not 60% of the time that a 2 is rolled! Average yield is thus 2.1 adventures. Size 1 and Quality 3 would roll 1d3, giving an average of 1.5 adventures. Notice how a 13% reduction in quality led to an increase in the average yield. If pride decreases quality by some relatively small amount, we will see an INCREASE in the average yield of low fullness integer quality foods. As these types of foods are commonly found in BM runs, pride will almost always have a positive effect.--QuantumNightmare 00:59, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
    • Ok I re-read what Jick said, and I see what you're talking about. The presence of a decimal number other than 0 will cause the extra adventure roll no matter what. Got it. However, I disagree with your assertion that the average adventures gained from rolling a 1d3 comes out to 1.5. Given that 1, 2 and 3 are all likely possibilities, the average will be 2 (as a MUD geek, I know you can find the average damage of a weapon (or XdX in general) by adding the lowest possible roll to the highest and dividing by two.. in this case 1+3=4/2=2). Bakapyrite 01:15, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
      • Yeah, that was just drunk bad math....Kinda hoping I'd have time to correct that this morning before anyone read it! Average of S1Q3 is 2, average of S1Q2.6 is 2.1. Much smaller improvement, but it's still there. And if we take pride to be a 5% reduction (which seems to be half of an opossum gain), then S1Q3 becomes S1Q2.85 which averages to 2.35.--QuantumNightmare 06:44, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
      • I'm on board with you now. It also explains why the fortune cookie was briefly "2, occasionally 1 adventure". If a fortune cookie is S1 Q1 and Pride is a 5% (hypothetical) reduction, then you get a S1 Q0.95 food, where S1 = Minimum 1 adventure and Q0.95 = 1 x 0 = 0 Max adventures (we'll assume this gets discarded in some manner) and a 95% chance of adding an extra adventure, hence you'll get 2 adventures 95% of the time and 1 adventure 5% of the time. Then one would have to assume that the fix for this bug is that Jick manually made S1Q1 foods give only 1 Adventure every time. Bakapyrite 14:31, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

"Lowers adventures from food"

We need some hard numbers here to be able to figure out what Pride is doing in regards to lowering adventures from food. It seems pretty clear that there is a hard floor involved because Fortune Cookies still give 1 adventure. But is Pride lowering the Quality of the food by a percentage (ie 25%) or hard number (ie -3) before the adventures are calculated, or are the adventures being calculated and then fed through some sort of percentage or hard number reduction? Or is Pride acting in some way like an "anti-Milk of Magnesium"? If you're in Bad Moon and have Pride, please list what you ate, the adventures you gained, and any effects which might modify the results. Bakapyrite 16:08, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Starting off, today is a non-stat day. I only have Pride for Meansucker skills. I wasn't wearing any remarkable gear and only had Seal Clubbing Frenzy active. I gained the following adventures and stats:

  • Fortune cookie - 1 adventure (no surprise)
  • Insanely spicy enchanted bean burrito - 14 (A)dventures, 31 (Mys)teriousness (chronic indigestion aquired)
    • 8-15 Adventures from this, so it's only chopping one adventure off
  • Sausage pizza - 5A, 15Mus; 6A, 16Mus; 4A, 18Mus
    • 3-10 Adventures, these results are in the middle of the range and are therefore a little uninteresting
  • Spooky shroomkabob - 4A, 8Mox
    • 2-5 Adventures, so again I'm only losing one adventure.

Bakapyrite 02:31, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

I won't bother reporting on stat gains, but here's some more data. I have pride, but also greed and envy.

So to summarize on limited data: for carob brownies and hot wings I got one less than the max. For pizzas I never got more than 3 less than the max. Could still go higher, I'd like to see more data. Here's a thought: so far I haven't seen any items give below the minimum adventure range (i.e., pizza giving 1 adventure). Is it possible that it only lowers the top number and affect the average that way?--Kazim 14:46, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

  • If the adventure range spread of a food is less than 8, then pride should only effect the maximum adventure gain. Otherwise, both the min and max adventure gains will be lowered.
Example: 2-6 adventures might become 2-5, while 4-12 might become 3-11.--QuantumNightmare 23:35, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

Same skills as yesterday, today I ate: Mushroom Pizza: 6A, 8A; Knoll shroomkabob: 3A, 3A, 3A; and Lemon Meringue pie: 3A. I've personally recorded the stat gains (today is a Musc day) but I won't include it unless unusual data pops up. So far I've seen minimum adventures from food, mid range adventures from food, and max-1 adventures from food. I guess the real question here is as addressed above, can we get min-1 adventures, and can we get max adventures? Bakapyrite 00:37, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

I just ate an insanely spicy enchanted bean burrito and got 14 adventures for it. I also ate three lihc eye pies, but unfortunately I forgot that I was supposed to record them and so they're lost. --Kazim 12:20, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

I've eaten more food and have gotten a max adventure result (3 adventures from a spooky mushroom). This indicates to me that there is not a hard reduction in adventures, but as suspected a percentage reduction of the Quality of food. I've also updated the table somewhat. Bakapyrite 00:22, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

Pr0n stir-fry -> 6 adventures (normally 3-11). So if it's possible but less likely to get full adventures from some food, is there even a point to maintaining this table? I guess the point would be that some do and some don't get full range. --Kazim 05:57, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

  • Yes, there's still a point to the table. At some point we'll start to see a reduction in adventure gains instead of just a change in distribution. That point will be important in seeing what the actual effect of Pride is on the reduction in Quality.--QuantumNightmare 11:24, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

Still more data:

These are my only burgers eaten in this run, so the range should have been 2-3. --Kazim 10:33, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

And more:

--Kazim 12:50, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

I've been keeping track of my numbers but they've been mid-range lemon pie results, nothing remarkable. However, it seems to me that if Kazim can get 8 adventures from said pie, that I begin to suspect it less likely that the Quality of a food is being impacted, at least before calculations. Since the pie is 3-9 adventures, I assume that means it's a S3 Q3 food. Then, if we were to subtract 5% off the quality before calculations, we get 2.85Q. 3x3 is 9, which is our old ceiling, but 3x2 is 6, with an 85% chance of adding one adventure, for a ceiling of 7. An adventure result of 8 would therefore imply that a different mechanism is at work here... maybe something like applying -1 adventures for some percentage of the time we eat foods? And then sufficiently small foods such as the spooky mushroom are manually entered, or else there's some flooring mechanism. Bakapyrite 11:03, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

And still more:

--Kazim 10:10, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

For what it's worth, the last five+ days or so worth of eating Lemon Meringue Pies each day.

6A 10Musc, 4A 9Musc, 5A 10Musc, 3A 10Musc, 5A 9Musc, 5A 8Musc, 5A 9Musc, 4A 9Musc, 5A 10Musc, 4A 10Musc, 7A 10Musc, 5A 9Musc, 3A 10Musc, 4A 9Musc, 3A 8Musc, 3A 10Musc, 6A 9Musc, 5A 8Musc, 3A 8Musc, 3A 8musc, 6A 9Musc, 3A 9Musc, 5A 10Musc, 8A 8Musc, 5A 10Musc, 3A 8Musc, 8A 9Musc Bakapyrite 17:27, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

Alright, I just ate five Black puddings and received: 6A 12Musc 12Myst 11Mox, 6A 10Musc 11Myst 10Mox, 5A 10Musc 11Myst 10Mox, 6A 12Musc 11Myst 10Mox, 7A 11Musc 10Myst 12Mox. The key here is that the range of possible adventures (that we're aware of) is 5-7Adventures, and I received 5-7Adventures. One thing to keep in mind is that 5-7Adventures is almost certainly a "hand crafted" range as opposed to just a bog standard Quality and Size calculation. Therefore it may be that Pride isn't designed to interact properly with such a food. Otherwise... I really have no idea. Bakapyrite 00:27, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

My final part of the run, I've since ascended to normal Hardcore. Crimbo pie 7A 38Musc, 8A 29Musc, 10A 29Musc, 10A 45Musc, 13A 32Musc, 9A 33Musc, 10A 35Musc, 11A 35Musc, 13A 31Musc, 11A 55Musc, 13A 53Musc, 10A 42Musc, 9A 36Musc, 10A 33Musc, 8A 37Musc, 11A 45Musc, 11A 31Musc, 13A 31Musc, 7A 43Musc, 9A 37Musc, 9A 26Musc, 8A 36Musc, 12A 35Musc, 7A 44Musc, 7A 43Musc Bakapyrite 22:40, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

Spading results table

Please fill this out more for me, I'm feeling lazy :) --Kazim 12:37, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

FoodNormal adventuresAdventures with pride (so far)
insanely spicy enchanted bean burrito8-1514
pr0n stir-fry3-116
sausage pizza3-105
mushroom pizza3-106
goat cheese pizza3-104-8
lemon meringue pie3-93-8
Black pudding5-75-7
carob brownies2-54
spooky shroomkabob2-52-4
knoll shroomkabob2-53
olive stir-fry1-53-4
trollhouse cookies2-32-3
spooky mushroom2-33
hot wing1-21
Crimbo pie8-147-13

Conclusion?

Potentially dumb question: since all the negatives from Meansucker are equal to half the positives, wouldn't it be easiest just to say that the loss for food is 1/2 of that of gains from Opossum (which has, afaik, already been spaded)? --Deusnoctum 23:22, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

To both answer Deusnoctum and sum up my feelings about what I saw while in BM, it appears basically that the manner in which Pride reduces adventures from food is both "complicated" and overall not really much of a penalty. It's almost certainly *not* just "Opposum inverted". For the most part it seems to amount to dropping the MaxAdventureGain by 1, but in some instances also drops the MinAdventureGain as well. It also appears to vary depending upon the type of food, as Black Pudding didn't seem to be affected at all. This might be because it is, in fact, messing with the FoodQuality and a lot of foods don't actually use that stat, or it could be because of some other reason. I also just wanted to throw another note on this page to see if anyone's continued spading this, or if it died out in late September. Bakapyrite 15:02, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

  • Actually let me step back and say that it's certainly within the realm of possibility that Pride is acting like a weak "inverse Opposum" where it subtracts 0-1 (roughly half of Opposum's +0-3) adventures per food. Bakapyrite 15:10, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
First, let's get straight what Opossom DOES NOT do. It DOES NOT give a bonus of 0-3 adventures every now and then when food is consumed. What does it do? It changes
1) The maximum and minimum adventure gains for every food by 0-3
2) The distribution of adventure gains within the range
Some foods do not benefit from point 1), but only bad quality food in the first place. All foods benefit from point 2). Now, if we consider something to be the inverse of opossum, what effect would it have? It would decrease the maximum of minimum adventure gains of food, and it would skew the results more towards the low end of the range. And guess what people have seen? A decrease in the max and min adventure gains. Looks like an opossum effect to me.--QuantumNightmare 16:14, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

Has anyone looked to see if stat gains from food lessen with this? --YankaTexee 22:44, 3 February 2008 (CST)

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