Talk:Shadow opponent

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Reduction of Discussion

Looking through this page, a lot of it concerns the naughty sorceress quest before NS13 and can be removed. Also other notes that do not add anything such as "I had no trouble", can be removed.


The Naughty Sorceress Quest page says upping HP doesn't help against the shadow since it hits based on your HP. This page says it does help against the shadow and recommends arse-a-fire. Which is it? I've never actually tried upping my HP for the shadow so I'm not really the best one to make a decision. Crystallina 10:48, 4 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • Let's say lowering your hp doesn't help, being beaten up still leads it to do the same damage (at least enough to kill in two hits), so I'm thinking its more or less based on muscle? --Dextrial 21:20, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Stat gains without any stat familiar (using a potato) or any weird + monster level:
You gain 54 Fortitude.
You gain 147 Mysteriousness.
You gain 48 Smarm.
It's Myst day, though, so it looks like it's 200 substats (54+98+48). -Caesar K 23:00, 4 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)


yep, i got 200 on a non-stat day as a level 11 pmancer

You gain 52 Strongness.
You gain 99 Magicalness.
You gain 49 Chutzpah.

-llamaman

Homeopathic Funkslinging no longer works?

I have been winning iniative, funkslinging homeopathic elixirs, having around 400 hp start, and just lasted 4 rounds, doing either 19 or 20 damage per elixir. Meaning 38 or 40 damage a round, with 4 rounds, that means it now has over 100 hp? I just tried this twice, and triple checked everything. I'm not increasing any hp, using mostly iniative boost equips. Looks like I need to get some red pixels.

  • Just beat it with 4 red pixel potions, and apparently they recover ~100 each, so it definitely has 300-400 hp. :/--Dextrial 21:37, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Anyone else experiencing this? --Dextrial 21:18, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Upping your HP

I've been testing the shadow today (mostly because I've been having trouble beating it for some odd reason), and I can confirm that the Shadow's damage is, in fact, based on your HP alone.

How do I know? I am a Sauceror, and I was dealt 40 damage per turn with nothing buffing my HP or Muscle. I added two ladles (taking off kickback cookbooks, which should have no impact) and the Shadow's damage increased to 50 per round. I went in with Arse a'fire Elixir for the next round, and was dealt 90 damage per turn.

So, when fighting the shadow, do not rely on anything put your pixel potions to get you through the battle. INCREASING YOUR HIT POINTS DOES NOT WORK.

  • This is incorrect. As the shadow does damage based on flat+HP/5 the more HP you have the more likley you are to surive the 5 hits needed to hit him with 4 Red Pixel Potions. If you have only 60 HP then you will die before you get to use your last red pixel potion.--D0om 06:24, 16 January 2006 (Central Standard Time)

Blah

As far as I know, you need more than 100 HP or else you'll be unable to win.

JanoSicek comments

I added my knowledge of Shadow to main article. Upping HP DOES work, you can win with 70 HP, but with a different strategy. For each strategy you need a different HP value, as outlined in main article. Perhaps 2 previous paragraphs should be deleted? And this too.

Shadow Dancing

I changed the note regarding the Shadow Dancing reference, as the song is by Andy Gibb. He wasn't one of the Bee Gees.

Scroll of drastic healing?

What about the scroll of drastic healing?

  • Cannot be used in combat. In order to defeat your shadow, you have to heal yourself while combatting him/her, though. Please sign your posts. --NewZorkBat 09:32, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

Shadow Damage

When I fought my Shadow a few days ago, the 2nd and 3rd attack messages did NOT inflict Shadow Damage. Either it was due to the effects I had, or the game has gone buggy. --Quietust 10:57, 13 May 2006 (CDT)

  • Hm, I'll take the notice of Shadow damage from the page then. I thought that they all inflicted Shadow damamge. Is there any reason for them not to inflict Shadow damage though? --Someone Else 11:39, 13 May 2006 (CDT)
    • It would be useful to have a few other players take a look at this, preferably without any special effects, to see if it's actually doing shadow damage like it should be. It's possible that something got broken in the game during some other changes (like, say, the part about allowing specific attacks to do specific elements). --Quietust 12:24, 13 May 2006 (CDT)

Naming

  • Should this be renamed to something more consistent with the other adventures?--Dehstil (t|c) 14:57, 13 July 2006 (CDT)
  • How about "Shadow $class"?--Dehstil (t|c) 21:16, 28 July 2006 (CDT)

Healing from familiars?

Does healing from familiars have any effect on the Shadow? Even if it doesn't, it could swing the battle to your side if you're going the single-Elixir route. --Darth l33t 18:06, 27 November 2006 (CST)

Lasagna Bandages Odds

I did the math; the old figure of 1 in 250 (about 0.4%) was off by a mile. The exact odds are 126 in 161051, or about 0.07824%. I also sanity-checked my results via the Monte Carlo method, which gave me an estimate of 0.07797% after just over 7 million trials. --Poochy 16:53, 7 December 2006 (CST)

Make that Monte Carlo method estimate 0.07830% after over 10 million trials. Now I'm pretty darn sure my numbers are right. --Poochy 17:00, 7 December 2006 (CST)

Red Pixel Potions and Max HP

Using the formula damage/turn = 22+Max HP/5, it seems that your max hp actually doesn't matter because of the way slopes work in this. Your hp at round 5 is fixed. Say, your HP over combat rounds is H-(22+H/5)X+25X, where H is your max hp (which we'll assume you're starting with) and X is the current combat round (independant variable). Right now, we're choosing +25 hp/turn because 25 is the floor for hp gain with the red pixel potion. For all values of H, hp at x=5 is 15. Say we use the ceiling value for hp gain with the potion; hp=H-(22+H/5)X+30X. Then for all values of H, hp at X=5 is 40 (notice that this is exactly 15 higher, suggesting a relationship to 3*[life gain/turn] since our life gain/turn is now 5 higher). This is because at X=5 you are adding H and then multiplying it by -(5/5) or -1. Therefore, your survival is solely dependant on your life gain ability.

Considering a general life gain/turn (hp=H-(22+H/5)X+GX) and the win condition GX>=96, the logical expression: H-(22+H/5)X+GX>0 || GX>=96 is true for all X if G>20. --Jocken 19:05, 26 February 2007 (CST)

New Calculations?

Post NS13, it seems the shadow now deals a completely different set of damage. The character's max health was 84, and yet the Shadow both got the jump and did 100-112 damage.

This didn't happen to me, but to a family member. However, they showed me it, and it happened more than once, suggesting a change in the formula used. --Jonzay 02:55, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

the same thing happened to me. i am a DB with 127 hp. shadow deals 122(initiative). DB uses red potion (heals 100HP). Shadow attacks (120). You lose. You slink away, dejected and defeated. I had to buy Ambidextrous Funk-slinging as i didn't want to collect more red potions. Next fight, 3 red potions of +100HP each were used via funk-slinging. but shadow not dead yet. --Stevetek 10:05, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

As other said, same here.GREENAlDEN555 23:29, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

I beat him by funkslinging 4 red potions and 4 homeopathic elixers - Im betting that 4 red potions will do it - just like before.--Grimdel 03:16, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

I had the same problem as an AT with around 100 HP ... got hit for all or more than all of my HP right away. Used every potion I cound scrounge and bought two songs to raise my HP to over 180 then survived all four rounds by using red pixel potions (with elixir as second funksling for backup since by now I was paranoid). She ulli 07:03, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Something has got to be seriously wrong with the old strategy. I know that Jick and company are competent game designers and that they care very much about giving new players a good experience. The simple fact is that an unascended player does not have funkslinging and can't use dual pixel potions every turn, plus they probably wouldn't know about reagent potions. Right now I'm level 14, I've got nearly 500 hp from philter and plexiglass, and the shadow hits me for about 170 per turn. Funkslinging two homeopathic elixirs is only good for 40 per round, and it is not good enough to beat the shadow before it kills me. There is bound to be a reasonable strategy that a total newbie could pull off, and boosting your hp to very high levels and using reasonably good healing powers is just not good enough. --Kazim 10:14, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Never mind. I hadn't realized it, but the red pixel potion is MUCH more powerful now. Elixirs don't work, but rpp's handle it. I'm sad now, though, because that's one of the main reasons why I took the ambidextrous skill.

Another strategy

Well.....I just defeated him with absolutely no problems...

dual-slinging gauze garters worked like a charm =)--Noneofyourdarnbusiness 23:27, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

Blocking some combat items

It looks like your Shadow blocks (& removes) some combat items -

"You approach your shadow and attempt to use the spectre scepter, but it knocks it out of your hands."

This does not seem to be noted anywhere, does this only affect reusable items? --Xeno The Morph 15:49, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

It's probably because the scepter does more than heal, and direct attacks don't work, remember? --Jimfromtx 00:23, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Yes, but nowhere is written that the item is then lost... It just happened to me! I'm adding it. If someone can try also with other reusable items... --Luos 07:25, 23 October 2007 (CDT)

massage oil?

I've only battled it once and I wasn't able to get a clear reading on it, but it seems like the scented massage oil from the semi-rare harem adventure is the ultimate shadow-killer. Up your max hp, wait for it to get you to 1 more attack from death, then use the oil. Heals all damage, and you get 3 oils from the adventure, so there's no pixel farming or funkslinging required. DEFINITELY worth looking into. Hooray for combat-usable drastic healing?

And yes, it healed all my health and it said the shadow writhed in agony, so all that seemed to work.--Fearful Ferret 16:21, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

I was curious about this myself, and tested the massage oil on an SC bad moon multi. I maxed my hp (well over 400), went in with ~190hp, took one hit which left me with 22hp, tossed a massage oil, and 1hk'd my shadow.--Snooty 12:28, 8 November 2007 (CST)

I added some stuff to the Hardcore Oxygenation fora (under the name of my new, soon to be HCO-path only multi): http://jick-nerfed.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4647 It has some maths to help explain the viability of this tactic, such as when one can attempt it. --Rethhus 06:05, 25 May 2008 (CDT)

Defensive damage?

The groovy prism necklace does work. This MIGHT have helped me defeat my shadow this time. Skullrock 09:01, 16 December 2012 (CET)

Do defensive damage items, such as the hippy protest button and the bottle opener belt buckle, work against the shadow? - Custos 11:59, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

Spiky turtle shoulderpads work against the shadow. Stomf 11:33, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

New damage formula

I seemed to simply take between 100-120 with each hit, and everyone above reports the same thing. Is there any confirmation that the damage even scales with you HP anymore? --Starwed 20:55, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

I took ~201 each hit as a Seal Clubber with about 600 max HP (go go Temporary Lycanthropy boost). It definitely scales with max HP. I expect it's a similar formula to before (X% of max + Y gauranteed damage), but Y has been greatly increased to compensate for NS13 and make HP increasing more necessary. --Fatmus 01:13, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

References

The Shadow Character is pretty common in RPGs and other games. Is it necessary to list all (or rather, a very small selection) of these games as references? Eran of Arcadia 16:10, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

I don't think that it is. Call me a skeptic, but, I don't think Jick and Skully played Japanese import RPG's. We should remove some of these references, or else replace "references" with "reminds me of."--P4n1q 07:00, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Gremlin Juiced

I used one bottle of gremlin juice and tried attacking the shadow. The results: nothing new, I still got the "Every move you make, it's got a hand up just in time. You find it impossible to hit your own shadow." message. This was done in response to Mxylptlk adding a question about the effects of gremlin juice to the rewriting/expanding tag. - Egs 05:07, 2 December 2007 (CST)

Damage Spading

  • max HP of 863, observed uniform range of 234-244.
  • max HP of 460, observed uniform range of 167-177.
  • max HP of 1163, observed uniform range of 284-294.

This very strongly suggests that the damage done by the shadow is, in fact: 90 + ceil(max HP / 6) + rand(0, 10) --RoyalTonberry 05:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Quick Spading Note

I took an unascended character (DenMother) with no passive initiative boosts and 245 Main Stat. Using initiative formula, my chance to get initiative should be 45% if the shadow has 150 INIT.

  • At -40 init, I could still get the jump (after about 10 turns)
  • At +50 init, I could still lost the jump (after about 10 turns)
  • At +55 init, I went 25 turns and did not lose the jump.

While 25 turns does not sound like a lot, that, combined with the -40 and 50 tests, show a 150 INIT for the shadow class. --Foggy 22:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

All (non-healing) Skills unusable?

Unascended Sauceror, taking on the Naughty Sorceress for the first time with much help from the wiki. I didn't see anything on the page about using combat skills against the shadow, so figured I'd just give it a shot. (The line under "Strategy" that says "Only direct healing items and skills will damage your Shadow" might be considered a little ambiguous, as it could be read as either "only healing items and [healing] skills" or as "only healing items and [any] skills".) Anyway, of course it didn't work, and the game response was: "You find yourself unable to use any of your skills against your shadow. There's undoubtedly a very good explanation for this, but there's no time to get into it right now." ...followed by a hit message (shadow puppet theatre), me losing 141 HP (shadow damage), and me slinking away, Beaten Up. It probably should be more clearly stated that combat skills are just as useless as physical attacks (assuming that it's all combat skills other than healing, not just the Sauceror's Wave of Sauce that I tried). --MadKingSoupII 21:03, 16 November 2011 (CET)

  • Well, the "healing items and skills" bit is a single link to HP Restorers, so it seems like it does mean "healing (items and skills)" rather than "(healing items) and skills". --Club (#66669) (Talk) 23:56, 16 November 2011 (CET)

huh

Totally random, but I think the "damages attacking opponents" items work against the shadow. Last run I fought it with the double-ice cap, and it was damaged as well as stunned. Argus 03:33, 21 November 2011 (CET)

Siphon Spirit

Does it work, or is it ineffective?--Toffile 04:06, 13 March 2012 (CET)

  • when I made the attempt several days ago, it didn't even allow the skill to be used. It's a skill, the shadow blocks skills, so we're out of luck.--Noskilz 05:09, 13 March 2012 (CET)

Outdated language

I think it's high time to remove the specific mention of "Entangling [N]oodles" from the Notes section. Would I be right in assuming that I can just rewrite that to refer to all stuns and blocks? --Leaper 03:51, 11 July 2012 (CEST)

Shadow's HP

I threw a garter for 120, then a garter for 80, then a garter for 99, then a red pixel potion for 100, killing the shadow. Total 399. As a Zombie Master, in case that's important. --Greycat 15:12, 9 September 2012 (CEST)

Avatar of Jarlsberg

In an Avatar of Jarlsberg ascension, jiggling the Staff of the Staff of Life will work returning all of your missing hp and harming the shadow. So coming in with 1/401 HP, winning initiative and jiggling will win automatically. --Skullrock (talk) 06:53, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


Plaid Bandage Fail

I just had a plaid bandage blocked by my shadow. --Sausssage (talk) 16:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Lovebugs

I think I was unable to use the Summon Love Mosquito skill, can anyone confirm that it doesn't work? JaAchan (talk) 08:23, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Jiggling Chefstaves

I noticed that my shadow can be damaged directly by jiggling a chefstaff. So far, I've only tested with the Staff of the Headmaster's Victuals and Staff of Simmering Hatred. --Pilomotor (talk) 02:01, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

December 2019 Update

Missing shadow avatars

As of this posting, the grey goo path does not have a shadow equivilent, so the image for the fight is broken. we should keep an eye on that one.--Tombot (talk) 19:27, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

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