Talk:Simple Tool-Making Cave

Unless Im mistaken - isnt this the "Toy-Making Cave", Im not an expert at changing titles (as it probably affects links) - so Ill leave it to an expert --Grimdel 00:59, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Up by where you see the history tab is the "move" tab. That would do the trick. But too late.

And don't beat yourself up about not knowing, I just learned it too. ;P --Teenr0cker 01:18, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Drops

I can confirm that the sinew-stretching cave elf is able to drop two stringy sinews in the same adventure. Also, I don't think the flint-scraping cave elf drops the tooth, that was bad copyediting done on my part. I mean, it might, but when I put it there it was meant for the hunter-gatherer cave elf, so I removed it for now. --TheDotGamer 01:51, 1 December 2006 (CST)

I just got a tooth and a Big leaf from the hunter-gatherer cave elf; page updated --Darkness 01:53, 1 December 2006 (CST)

rock-banging cave elf can drop two rocks at once. --Darkness 02:01, 1 December 2006 (CST)

I've gotten [two sticks], [two rocks], and [a rock and a stick] ... all from different adventures, and all VERY infrequently of course. I think it's safe to say that any and all of the encounters here have a very small chance to drop two items at once ... --Bork 02:05, 1 December 2006 (CST)

I have yet to get the big leaf. Did you equip any of the stone-age stuff or use any of the combat items when you got it?--Teenr0cker 02:39, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Well, I did have Fire on my head, but I think it's just a matter of the RNG liking you - or not. --Bork 02:43, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Only had items used to increase item drops, nothing from the cave was used when I found mine. Had a friend use a Mr. Accessory Jr to find his as well (no cave items as well).--Esko 02:44, 1 December 2006 (CST)

I somehow managed to pull a [big leaf] from a [sinew stretching cave elf] in 13 adventures. Seems weird to me too. :S --sw1tch 14:40, 4 December 2006 (AEST)

Scaling

Just wanna throw out some data on the scaling mechanism. Ran about 100 combats on a lvl 14 seal clubber with 278-143-180 buffed stats, and got 34 substats every single battle. As soon as my moxie went up a point, to 181 buffed, I started seeing an occasional 35 substat gain, over another 20 battles. I was using Peeled Eyeballs the entire time, which would imply that the base gain at 180 moxie is actually 35 substats, which equates to 175 monster attack/level. This, and the fact that I started seeing occasional (within reason of 20% of the time) increased substats at 181 moxie makes me think that their attack and the xp they give scales to exactly buffed moxie - 5. This is consistent with the fact that they miss more often than not as well.

I'm not sure how their defense scales, but I'm guessing it's to buffed muscle, and that it's buffed muscle - 10, maybe even lower than that. I've never, ever missed when doing a normal attack, only by fumbling. I also debuffed my muscle to 1 with hernia, petting, and sleepy, and still never missed; I attacked with a seal-clubbing club and had only the passive claws +7 melee damage, and did 13-15 with every hit. (I also still got the exact same substats after the battle as with high buffed muscle, which lends weight to the idea that monster xp is based on monster attack only.) That would imply their defense is only 5 lower than buffed muscle, but like I said I never missed a swing in all 150+ combats, so I'm not sure. Might have been skewed by having such low muscle, as the monster's defense value would have been negative. They also seemed to have ~120 HP in these 1-buffed-muscle battles, but I didn't check at the higher values, so have no idea how that scales. (Except that it definitely does, as 170+ wasn't always enough to kill at higher muscle values.)--Salien 04:30, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Zeider's test on his multi Stats gained

Flint-63,63,64,63,63 Sinew-63,63,63 Rock-63,64,64,63,63,63 Hunter-63,63

By now, can see that all of them give the same. I was a level 20 Pastamancer 278/400/284 (307/442/322)

Gain 1 myst. (I also gained one muscle somewhere in there, but didn’t take notice. Damn)

Next one is still 63.

Gain 1 moxie

64,64,63,63,63

Now I have 285 unbuffed moxie, but still 322 buffed. Looks like the moxie-5/5 is correct.

Now, I changed my hat to get 327 buffed. If it works, I should get 64.4..in other words 64 3 times 65 twice.

64, 65, 64, 65, 65

Close enough, damnit. So that theory is proven right.

Now, the thing is, I have been running aria of annoyance all this while. Let me take it away.

64…and he hits me for much less too… Now Aria at level 20 should have given me like 40ml, which usually translates to 8 more exp…not here.

Try on other +ml stuff. Same.

Try pilgrim shield. That works. The +3 stat thing. Good.

Tried Serum of Sarcasm for fun. 609 buffed moxie. According to the formula, with the shield I should be getting 123 or 124. Which I am…in other words…very nice stat pumping…I want nvx to try this. But when the moxie is so high…he hits hard.

Now for hp. Between 211 and 287. Between 274 and 284. Can’t focus in more than that. Any link anyone can see between that and my stats? 470 max hp, 672 max mp.--Zeider 09:10, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Crits and Fumbles?

Is there any way of telling which messages are criticals and fumbles, rather than just hits or misses? I assume this is more difficult than normal with scaling monsters.--Lord kobel 08:08, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Not References

"The items and the overall theme of this area may refer to the game Chrono Trigger and the phreistoric area of the game, where when you won battles you got items like the same you get here. The trading post/toolmaking site might also be a refrence."

• Hmmm, I think this is just a "this reminds me of that" situation, not a direct ref. --Jonrock 03:04, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Right About Now

I ascended from an HC run, where I had completed parts one and two of the crimbo quest. These reset as you would expect. HOWEVER, the RIght-about-now quest is popping up randomly as I adventure in the Simple Tool-Making Cave and I have NOT got the leaf quest, so no smoking yet. So either it is incorrect to say that it only comes up after smoking the cigar, or, more likely, the code has a bug in it that means after ascending it isn't resetting properly...--Remnant 06:06, 6 December 2006 (CST)