Talk:The Wallaby

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Wallaby Theories

The following sections list a myriad of theories on what the wallaby does -- almost, in fact, as many theories as people unwilling to test them. The leading theory is that the wallaby in some way contributes fractional familiar weight. This is quite hard to detect, as a measurable contribution from such an effect will requires thousands of samples to achieve statistical power against monster variance and the vicissitudes of the Random Number Generator.

While new ideas are helpful, what is really needed is for someone to subject the fractional-familiar-weight theory to careful and rigorous scrutiny.

Occasional +N to Familiar Weight (Proven)

The best working theory is that the wallaby occasionally contributes additional weight. In this lengthy forum thread, several top speed ascenders strongly hint that some small (possibly fractional) weight is added, and describe how this could be tested.

  • The rounding mechanism of the result will determine whether additional poundage will even have an effect -- for some combinations of familiar weight and monster XP, the hypothetical wallaby poundage will have no effect.
  • Testing by measuring stat gains is complicated by the as-yet unknown effects of variance.
  • Anecdotally, many people have reported getting extra MP steal from their Pygmy Bugbear Shaman.

The Whirling Maple Leaf appears to have a strict function for its mp restore of weight+4 mp. If this is correct, a weight 10 maple leaf will restore 14mp - not more, not less. With this validated, it would be possible to see if the wallaby added a pound. --Shagie 13:46, 13 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Additionally, Fuzzy dice would verify this too. --Shagie 13:48, 13 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Or, you know... with a 9 pound Howling Balloon Monkey. The +weight seems to have been pretty solidly disproven, however. Mr. Blonde 19:08, 20 January 2006 (Central Standard Time)

  • Today, with a 10-pound HBMonkey (10 pounds is the no-action limit, not 9), under wallaby sign, over the course of 286 combat rounds, I got: 143 "rubs its legs/arms together, making squeaky noises" as expected. But I also got 1 "shocks your opponent" and 3 "shocks you", which should not have been possible normally. --Hellion 17:44, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
    • If you scroll down you'll see my theory on WHEN it happens. Combined, I think we've just about figured this out --soupersalad

Sorry, but the Maple Leaf's MP restoring is not a fixed amount...I tested the Maple Leaf from 6 lbs to 17 lbs (with the mountie hat), and found that it restored anywhere from +5 to -5 its weight.--Foggy 08:39, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

I am under a wallaby sign with a 40 pound Pygmy Bugbear Shaman. Every few rounds, the MP that was taken away after the fight was 21 instead of 20 that should have been. Since the MP taken from the shaman is weight divided by 2 rounded down, this would imply that wallaby is occasionally adding familiar weight. It could be a variable of 1-3 pounds (the 1lb wouldn't be detected with a 40lb shaman by MP usage, and 3lb would give the same MP result as 2lb)--Williabr 20:35, 7 February 2007 (CST)

  • You wouldn't happen to have a log file for a decent sample size, would you? I've been collecting data toward this hypothesis for the last 5 weeks or so and have a pretty solid idea for the basic mechanism, but more data points are always better. --Hellion 21:39, 7 February 2007 (CST)

A couple of folks (including devs) have told me that this is now officially fixed (though at least one seems to think it may only be fixed on the dev server, and might not have been pushed to the live servers), and the effect will happen on more than just the first page load. Can anyone confirm this? --J12601 23:37, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

If there are any spaders with a Penguin Goodfella, couldn't extremely accurate (and precise) results be gotten from the amount of meat spent per Goodfella contract? --Peregrine 22:14, 4 February 2008 (CST)

Hints From the Toot Oriole

I asked the Oriole about this sign, and got this response:

Wallaby is nice,
cuddly and gregarious.
Your friends will love him.

If that's true, then it probably mean it has something to do with familiars... your "friends." --Azn dr4g0n 09:16, 9 November 2006 (CST)

Reasoning by Extension from Other Signs

Here is how I see it, there are 3 signs for each class. One for each specific class and one for the both. For example, Packrat for accordion thief's (since it's to do with stealing). Blender for Disco Bandits (They make cocktails) And wombat for the both as they are both moxie classes. So If this works for moxie it should work for muscle too, Mongoose for the both, Vole for the Seal clubber and Wallaby for the turtle tamer. And It makes sense that turtle tamers would have better handle on familiars wouldn't it?--Enemy Lasagna 19:38, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

I agree with the above and have a thought for why we haven't noticed it yet

I don't agree. That seems to be how it goes for the Moxie signs but the mysticality signs are considerably differnt. 1 seems to be geared towards a Pastamancer, while the other 2 seem more or less neutral. ~Raz

Something JLE said during a /hardcore session indicated that the familier weight was (if not correct) very close to being correct. I have a theory. Until now, every thought on the hidden familier weight had something to do with it changing by adventure, this adventure you get it, this you don't. I'm saying that it doesn't change by encounter, but by TURN in an encounter. When you have the other signs, they only get called upon when they are put into action (i.e. the stat boosters are factored into the stat gain at the end of a battle ONLY, and therefore appear to be determined by adventure. Or the food thing, which is calculated each time you use food). Therefore it is at least possible that the familier bonus is calculated each time your familiar does something. For instance, there was a test with the starfish. What if each turn when the game checked to see if the starfish did something, the game also checked to see if the Wallaby added +1 or +0 to the starfishes weight? The results could be skewed by this unexpected or unanticipated result. Can someone check my findings? I'm not too good at finding out these things.

-soupersalad

Combat Initiative (Disproven)

This is almost definitely a boost in initiative. While peak farming under Wallaby with no other initiative-boosting gear, I was getting the jump on Knott Yetis over 90% of the time, even when my moxie was below 106 (at which point I'd be unable to avoid any attacks). I'll post about 200 adventures worth of stats tomorrow (complete with moxie values) to see if we can get an actual quantity for this. --Quietust 07:52, 19 May 2006 (CDT)

  • Unfortunately, I ended up spending 200 adventures without failing initiative once, so there's some other factor involved. --Quietust 12:17, 26 May 2006 (CDT)
    • Disregard this - with the new information on Combat Initiative, it's clear that this was entirely a result of my main stat being too high. --Quietust 10:49, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Is this actually disproven? Seems pretty certain to me that it's initiative. TT in HC, no perm skills that affect initiative yet. Picked the Wallaby, and have got jump on monsters basically every time - even in those Crimboween factory locations where the monsters are supposed to scale to my stats - whereas that didn't happen there to my previous two ascensions (with different signs)... --Andemon 03:55, 22 December 2006 (CST)

From the definitive Combat Initiative spading thread: "The Zodiac sign Wallaby, though long rumored to increase initiative, does not in fact do so." Also -- and I mean this as gently as possible -- one run, versus monsters with known low initiative (the crimbo monsters) should not make you "pretty certain." We don't need more anecdotal testimony: we need someone to perform a several-thousand-combat log with chi-squared, confidence level, and statistical power analysis. --DirkDiggler 04:16, 22 December 2006 (CST)

  • Looks quite definite, so I suppose I'll have to believe it. Still leaves me wondering why my previous HC ascension (DB with Overdeveloped Sense of Self Preservation and Sugar Rush) almost never got the first hit in The Crimborg Collective Factory, but my TT always does (admittedly, I only adventured there enough to get one of each item). --Andemon 05:23, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Spleen-Improving (Unlikely)

  • The Mysticality signs have a food-improving one, the Moxie have a booze-improving one. Could this be a spleen-improving one? Anyone willing to test?--Someone Else 07:09, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
    • EXACTLY what I was thinking! if it followed the pattern with the Myst and Mox Signs that definitely should work! --Jedibob5 07:20, 13 August 2006 (CDT)
    • I'm sure a lot of people have tested this, but I went ahead and tested it myself. It provides no spleen improvement. Everything still falls in the normal range, and doesn't increase the amount your spleen can take. The distributions seemed normal also. This is DEFINITELY not the case for the Wallaby - nothing to do with spleen. -Holler 03:39, 26 August 2006 (CDT)

The sunken chest also doesn't open, but Jick said (again, probably sarcastically) that it might open under certain conditions. Maybe someone could test this with a crowbar?

Meat/Melee (Unlikely)

Trying in the Laboratory, I don't think there's a bonus for either. (Meat is difficult for me to test, as I have Nimble Fingers, but if I adjust for the bonuses, the meat amounts I get seem to be consistent.) Damage is exactly in the range I expect it to be for a level 40 and 45 monster, and the muscle, weapon, and melee bonus in place.--Foggy 08:09, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

I actually think it increases meat drops as Packrat increases item drops. We just need to TEST. Zigota Lt 07:47, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

PvP (Disproven)

Could the Wallaby's effect be PvP-related? It would seem more appropriate for the Toot Oriole's comment.

Wallaby doesn't affect fights per day or fights from hatorade & red minotaur. It seems unlikely that it would mess with the minigames, but adjusting the stat contests intermittently sounds plausible. The contest mods from campground equipment and shelter are invisible.--Volante 09:51, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

Affects Buffs? (Disproven)

Maybe it does something with buffs? Ie. more turns or a lesser cost? That also would fit with the Toot Oriole's comment--Thraden 12:00, 16 July 2006 (CDT)

Madrigal, Tenacity, and Empathy all have normal cost and duration under Wallaby. I'm in hardcore, so I can only confirm this for self-use. --Volante 11:10, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

I'm sure you probably would have noticed this but I might as well mention it, are you sure it doesn't affect the power of buffs? -- Garle 4:15, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Bonus Familiar Kills (Disproven)

I wondered if Wallaby might be granting extra familiar kills from adventuring and ran a short test. The results of my test:

138 adventures in The Outskirts of Cobb's Knob, 82 combat and 56 non-combat (all while wearing monster bait). Every combat adventure gave one kill, every non-combat adventure gave zero kills.

Just like normal. Could there be an effect in the Arena? --Volante 10:51, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

I don't know what kind of arena effect you're looking for... but with the Wallaby's sign the arena functions just the same. I got a 2-5 kill bonus depending on how close the fight was, period. No funny business here. -Holler 03:40, 26 August 2006 (CDT)

+ML (Unlikely)

I Have been getting hit at the peak at 116 moxie with no ML buffs and have calculated the knott yetis' HP at 92 could some more people try this out and see.--Steveharwell 08:49, 24 August 2006 (CDT)

Upon more testing it's still happening, but not every time. --Steveharwell 08:56, 24 August 2006 (CDT)

  • There have been reports on the forum that monsters now have a random adjustment made to their level when you encounter them. --Quietust 09:10, 24 August 2006 (CDT)

Increased Familiar Damage (Unlikely)

My Sleazy Gravy Fairy is doing much more damage than the wiki entry suggests it should. I'm going to start logging hit frequency and damage. Could someone currently not under the Wallaby begin testing these stats for a 30 lb sleazy gravy fairy? --Volante 01:20, 7 September 2006 (CDT)

  • Are you taking the elemental nature of the attack into account? Sleaze does double damage to stench- and hot-based monsters. --Hellion 12:01, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
    • Darn it, you're right. I didn't realize Barbeque Teams had an elemental affinity. Back to the drawing board. --Volante 00:15, 8 September 2006 (CDT)

I don't think we can be sure about any of these. The KoL Wiki, however complex, is still, and always will be, inaccurate. (in Stat gain and Meat drops, etc, etc) But.. I have one idea: It increases meat drops. Why? Because Wallabies carry stuff! And being under this sign now, Knott Yetis are giving around +50 meat. It may also increase drops, like the Packrat.

+Combat Adventures (Unlikely)

Something I have been noticing having started under this sign is an increase of combat adventures over non-combat ones. I've only just started taking some notes, however I have found in places like the treasury a noticable difference in the meat chest adventures versus the combat ones. This seems to be the same in other areas. Can someone help me disprove this? This would also fit the toot's comment.--Angel 02:02, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

Considering that players would more often want to avoid combat rather than get into more of it; or at least which way they want to change it depends on circumstances... I would say, 'no' just on the basis that this would be the only sign which was ever worse than no sign at all. --Drachefly 08:57, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Food (Unlikely)

I don't know if it is related to the Wallaby, or whether VisualKOL needs an update, but I can confirm that I have received 29 adventures from eating a Knob Sausage Chow Mein (they are shown to give 21-28 adventures) and I have the sign of the Wallaby. I have no other food-enhancing effects up of which I am aware (just some TT buffs). - Eevle

  • Hm. Probably need more than just a single instance of +1. I'll probably do this my next ascention, so I'll try to keep notes. Mr. Blonde 05:39, 18 Oct 2005 (MDT)
  • This definitely deserves another look. I've been eating Rat Appendix Chow Mein as DB / The Blender for a couple of years now, boosting turns with MOM. Turns seem to be on a bell curve from 25-30, maybe squeaking a 31 every so often. I decided to do a TT / Wallaby run, and _every_ Knob Sausage Chow Mein I've eaten has given me 30-33 turns. Either the RNG was screwing me for years, or it absolutely loves me now, or there may be some unknown Wallaby food adventure gain, possibly aligned with muscle food? --Oranje 19:24, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
    • The chow mein pages all list an adventure range of 21-29. Indicating you must've missed the 31-33 range you should have seen several times as a DB. Certainly not unordinary to see 30-33 for a few handfuls of chow meins with milk. --Flargen 19:40, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Wallaby fix

I've heard tell that a fix for Wallaby has been pushed. When I get definite confirmation, I'll remove that section from the article. --TechSmurf 21:31, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

It's been a few months. Any word on the fix for Wallaby? --Lxndr 08:55, 26 October 2007 (CDT)

Looks like it was fixed after all. --Lxndr 20:15, 11 February 2008 (CST)

Average Weight?

What is the average plus weight this gives out? 1.7? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imakuni (talk • contribs) on 10:45, 9 October 2009

  • 0*.55 + 1*.2 + 2*.15 + 3*.1 = ? --Flargen 21:56, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
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