Talk:Throwin' Down the Gauntlet

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At level 78 of the basement, I lost 1,475 hit points. I suppose DA might help you, though.--Starwed 18:33, 4 July 2007 (CDT)


(Try singing your posts please) I would say that DA certainly helps as I hit level 105 yesterday and the most HP I was hit for was 900 something. --J12601 16:32, 4 July 2007 (CDT)


I just got through losing 1083 HP, basement level 47. Most annoying level yet. --Annamonster 01:43, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

(As lightgreycat.) Lost 1,871 hit points at level 92. Didn't read this talk page in advance, so I didn't maximize DA, but rather, muscle/HP. Effects did not include either astral or ghostly shell. I was wearing a stainless skullcap, bat-ass jacket, stainless shilly, pilgrim shield, can-can skirt, bejeweled pledge pin, copper alpha of sincerity, and plexi pinky ring. And I have Tao, but not Hero. Buffed stats were 1605/1090/2150. Level 27 disco bandit. --Greycat 20:21, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

As every value might help, at level 7 I lost 77 health. I should also point out but nobody has mentioned yet that if you fail you'll get a beat up for 4 turns instead of 3. --Golianor 02:35, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

Well, im at level 66, and i didn't even survive it with 1800HP. And it doesn't even tell me how much HP i lost... Is it possible there's more to this adventure than just hp? --Misanthrope 06:43, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm at level 161 and I can't pass it with over 4500 HP. This tells me that this is likely a damage absorption test and not simply an HP test since I've been trying to maximize HP without paying any attention to damage absorption.--Yiab 18:38, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

Just wondering, but does Damage Reduction Work here?--RPGMarker35 19:44, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

  • Not sure. I'd assume so, but once it starts dealing 5000+ damage, DR becomes a bit of a moot point. --TechSmurf 19:47, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

At basement level 253, I took 4,788 damage with 800 DA + whatever an Antique Shield gives you. This leads me to believe that one of either Grimdel or I is doing something wrong. (Since I was at a lower level, with more DA, and took more damage than him.) Perhaps you forgot to take Tao into consideration?--SketchySolid 14:19, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

At level 258, 4,883 damage under the same conditions.--SketchySolid 14:33, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Basement level 94, 725 DA, 3 DR: 1324 HP lost, which seems about right based on the L93 data below. --Nahtmmm 13:17, 14 July 2008 (CDT)


Data

Here's my "corrected/new" data collection from my last basement level run:

  • lvl DA hp
  • === == ==
  • 127 865 1685
  • 142 865 1928
  • 146 865 2037
  • 157 865 2173
  • 222 835 3447 <- forgot twinkly powder
  • 272 865 4724
  • 342 995 4264 <- upgraded armor
  • 348 995 4250
  • 364 995 4632
  • 396 995 4880
  • 416 995 5400
  • 439 995 5967
  • 478 995 6537

--Grimdel 18:03, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

An amalgamated set of data - includes the above, and info from HCO forums as well as my own spading

LVL DA DMG

=======

19 430 271
24 430 378
24 940 110
29 1010 114
31 940 161
41 1010 184
42 730 458
73 995 422
81 1165 470
93 980 622
93 1000 579
99 1000 620
101 1120 621
107 935 935
107 1165 714
112 1015 747
121 1120 821
127 865 1685
133 1120 921
142 865 1928
146 865 2037
157 865 2173
168 995 1542
204 915 2471
206 1120 1734
216 1010 2134
222 835 3447
228 1165 1980
238 1165 1980
242 1165 2167
242 1165 2167
246 1120 2253
251 1165 2323
272 865 4724
287 1120 2655
294 1120 2967
313 1165 3102
316 1165 3185
317 1120 3122
341 1040 3575
342 995 4264
348 995 4250
358 1165 3628
364 995 4632
368 1165 3827
396 995 4880
416 995 5400
426 1165 4680
427 925 6623
434 1120 4942
439 995 5967
469 1165 5702
478 995 6537

This is almost in line with base damage being 10 * level^1.4 then DA applied as normal. Note that this returns a slightly high value (averaging 103% of the actual taken, with a standard deviation of 6% / average deviation of 5%), but does not include DR. I'm including the raw data in the hopes that someone else can see a better approximation.--BDrag0n 18:19, 29 September 2007 (CDT)

Basement level 19, 565 DA, 12 DR: Lost 216 HP.--Nahtmmm 15:01, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

Formula

Going by just Grimdel's (old/bad) data, I think the base damage is about 5*level1.4. According to the DA formula, 510 means you absorb 61.4% of the base damage. Calculating the base damage and dividing by L1.4 gives

4.95, 4.85, 4.92, 4.744

I'm not too sure about this, though, and it would be nice to have data over a larger range of levels and DA, from multiple characters. --Starwed 03:27, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

Everything spaded about the basement so far scales as L1.4. So it's a good starting point. But 10% variability is larger than seen elsewhere in the basement, so I'm wondering if there is something extra here. --Starwed 18:58, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
  • running the "above corrected/new" numbers through this little piece of code:
   percent_absorbed = 10.*(sqrt(DA*0.1)-1.);
   coefficient = (hp_drained/(percent_absorbed*0.01))/pow(lvl, 1.4);
gives:
2.302, 2.253, 2.898, 2.206, 2.198, 2.222, 1.346, 1.310, 1.340, 1.255, 1.296, 1.328, 1.292
The numbers suggest a very rough estimate of:
  • HP Drain = DA% *1.789*level1.4 +/- 5%
A larger dataset is definately needed. However, if you notice the trend in the :calculations, I would guess the formula is closer to the form:
  • HP Drain = DA% * C0*(level (operator) C1)1.4
On the other hand, it seems coincidental that the MP test uses a coeficient of 1.67 and the coefficient here is 1.789 and I see two possible patterns - 1) "67" "789" and 2) a larger dataset might reveal that the coeficient is probably the same for both tests.

--Grimdel 18:03, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

I'm on level 54 and I had 309 hp, well of course it's not enough. Antique helmet, keg shield, antique greaves, ghostly shell, astral shell, twinklebritches, crusty head. So annoyed...

--Seko 15:58, 7 January 2008 (CST)

On level 26, 407hp, Astral shell, things from the DA and HP improvement pages (balloon helmet, foam finger, keg shield, black greaves, blackberry moccasins, bejeweled pledge pin, shiny hood ornament), and can't get through... Help!

--MLP 12:22, 10 January 2008 (CST)

The balloon helmet is definitely non-optimal here. You want Antique Helmet and Antique Greaves as your hat and pants, which will increase your Damage absorption base to 400. Get Ghostly Shell as well as astral for another +80, and you'll have at least 560. I'm assuming you don't have Tao of the Terrapin, Torso Awaregness, Hide of the Walrus, or Hide of the Otter, but any of those would help your DA as well (the first two significantly). If you're still having trouble, boost your muscle significantly, and your HP will go up. Philters of Phorce can be had fairly cheaply from the mall, and double your muscle, which will double your HP (triple it for a muscle class). If you are a non-muscle class, getting the Oil of Slipperiness/Expertise to use your mainstat as your base muscle, which will also help. --Wildfire393 13:45, 10 January 2008 (CST)

Didn't realise you could have both ghostly and astral shells at the same time - assumed they were like items in the same slot. Also grabbed Tao from the trainer, and sailed through without any problems. (Just 92 damage from a base of 300ish). Thank you! --MLP 16:35, 10 January 2008 (CST)

Ah, I see why you were using the balloon helmet: it has the highest +DA enchantment of any (readily available) helmet. But as you might have figured out now, the base power of hats, pants, and shirts also adds directly to your DA. The enchantment is just a little extra bonus. --Starwed 18:33, 10 January 2008 (CST)

I had 786 hp and got past losing 775 on level 54 with astral shell, ghostly shell, antique helmet, duct tape sword, keg shield, antique greaves and hp/muscle increasing accessories. Muscle increasing buffs Phorcefullness, Slippery Oiliness, Truly Gritty, Woad Warrior.

Lost 1057 on level 68 with antique helmet, duct tape sword, keg shield, antique greaves, Twinklebritches, Ghostly Shell, Astral shell and Crusty head. Total hitpoints 1096, that was a pretty close shave. Edit: Sorry, forgot to sign. The previous was also mine. --Seko 18:54, 15 January 2008 (CST)

With same equipment as before and buffs Gr8tness Slippery Oiliness Twinklebritches Phorcefullness Crusty Head Astral Shell Ghostly Shell Power Ballad of the Arrowsmith Reptilian Fortitude Stevedave's Shanty of Superiority

Failed. (On level 81.) But, now it says the amount of Hp I lost, which was 1,439 (I had 1249 total). At least I know how much more I need to get. --Seko 14:57, 17 January 2008 (CST)

I was playing on my mom's computer and I just found it unusual that it mentioned how much HP you lose, since earlier it only said it if you manage to get through, otherwise it would be blank. I could've just stored it in my notes and said the number when I get through. Which is 1,369 after using BenGal balm, tomato juice and Frogade. The reason I'm posting the numbers is that earlier in this conversation it was said that there is an unusually high variation, thus sharing how much I lost on this and that level and telling the things that affect my DA might give someone material for counting stuff. Quote "a larger dataset might reveal that the coeficient is probably the same for both tests" - if a "larger dataset" is no longer needed then I can stop providing this information. But thanks for the link. It looks like it might be useful. --Seko 12:16, 19 January 2008 (CST)

Stuck on level 233

Well, here's my list: Flower Power (1), Phorcefullness (2), Gr8tness (2), Slippery Oiliness (2), Tomato Power (2), Incredibly Hulking (2), Twinklebritches (2), Fishy Fortification (3), Antsy in your Pantsy (3), Sugar Rush (3), Go Get 'Em, Tiger! (3), Frog In Your Throat (4), Tamarind Torment (5), Spiky Hair (5), Bubble, Bubble (5), Black Face (7), Vitamin-Maxed (8), Supafly (8), Ringing Ears (8), Hot Blooded (8), Strength of Ten Ettins (8), Stenchtastic (8), Cold Blooded (8), Spooky Demeanor (8), Woad Warrior (10), Truly Gritty (10), Mallowed Out (104), Stevedave's Shanty of Superiority (185), Astral Shell (185), Ghostly Shell (185), Reptilian Fortitude (195), Power Ballad of the Arrowsmith (238) - and seems like every time I add something, the random deviation makes the damage grow larger. Once I was just two points away from getting through, then 60, then god knows how much. And since I didn't record the info, this is not really helping anyone, just proving that it's pretty hard to get anywhere without Tao of the Terrapin. Not that I was giving up, I'm too stubborn. I'll go raise my stats elsewhere and come back later.


more data

my data points look to me like they support the pow(lvl,1.4)*10 theory for the base damage rate of the Gauntlet... 

Level DA  Damage
178   515 5468, 5574, 5391
178   340 7482, 7097, 7274
178   160 10188, 9914, 9782, 9836, 9961, 9894

DA in each case consists of known values for hat and pants (no shirt equipped), plus Astral and Ghostly shells.

Complete list of effects: Brother Flying Burrito's Blessing, Rainbow Bright, Cold Blooded, Hot Blooded , Stenchtastic, Supafly, Aspect of the Twinklefairy, Mallowed Out, Ur-Kel's Aria of Annoyance, Jabañero Saucesphere, Jalapeño Saucesphere, Astral Shell, Elemental Saucesphere, Stevedave's Shanty of Superiority, Ghostly Shell, Empathy --Hellion 18:23, 8 August 2008 (CDT)


Additional data from myself...

Level: 57 Damage: 1257

  • Effects: Twinklefairy, Smile of Mr A, Ghostly Shell, Astral Shell
  • Equip: stone ball cap, duct tape swd, catskin buckler, black greaves, bejeweled pledge pin, 2x Mr. A

Level: 57 Damage: 773

  • Effects: same as previous plus Tranquilized Mind, Expert Oiliness
  • Equip: El Vibrato helmet, ductape swd, catskin, El Vib leg guards, pledge pin, 2x Mr. A

I'm not confident of my math sk1llz for figuring DA (or DR), which is why I list the equipment. Also, if it turns out to use a different mechanic... so when something definitive is worked out, feel free to delete this comment. --Pastangum 13:17, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Current formula slightly wrong

At level 18, the formula (Lv^1.4) * 10 predicts 572 damage. I observed a slightly higher damage range:

594,594,578,608,600,585,601,597,601,611,581,584,608,585,512,575,605,576,
581,580,598,590,603,580,607,577,594,580,615,567,571,590

which has a mean of 588 and a standard deviation (for the distribution) of 19.

So perhaps there's an additional +15 damage thrown in here? That would be unobservable at high levels. --Starwed 23:10, 28 December 2011 (CET)

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