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| Well, looks like we'll need a new number for the Palindome. Anyone have it? I'm out of adventures. [[User:His Noodleyness|His Noodleyness]] 01:12, 21 February 2007 (CST)
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| | !colspan="1"|Talk Archives |
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| | |[[Talk:Safe Adventuring/archive|Archive 1 - Pre-2008 Talk]] |
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| | == The Dungeons of Doom Safe Moxie == |
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| With the introduction of monster crits, the data on this page is largely useless. Not to say people will like not getting hit my a monster's normal attacks, but its a nasty surprise to get critted when you don't expect to get hit at all.
| | After the Dungeons of Doom update it has become more dangerous. I'm not sure what the new safe moxie is, but 51 definitely isn't it. Even at 58 I get hit a lot.--[[User:Nerdanel|Nerdanel]] 13:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC) |
| --[[User:Trendytotebag|Trendytotebag]] 00:30, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
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| *I'm pretty sure all critical hits hit, I've been hit criticals by things in the Pantry with 80+ Moxie, albeit for 1 damamge. Also, wiht 80 Moxie, the pirates at the Cove can't hit me normally, but hit for 10-13 with criticals. I'm almost sure it's possible for someone to die at the Pantry/Alley/Knob with 1 hp and 600 moxie.--[[User:Piroteknix|Piroteknix]] 13:41, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
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| **Yeah I agree that all critical hits hit, I got critted at dire warren with tons of moxie. The percentage says the experimental % for monster crits is 4.5%, is that possibly an approximation for 1/22? (the same base chance of you fumbling, and half then chance of you critting)
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| Regarding the organization of this page, I realize that it may be, as Jick would say, a little janky. Here's my rationale:<br>
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| 1. Sort first by the order in which broad areas open up. Having above-the-beanstalk areas later in the list than distant woods areas makes the list a little more topical in organization, and thus easier to search.<br>
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| 2. Sort second by amount of Moxie required, because this is probably about the same as the order in which the areas become available. Except:<br>
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| 3. Some areas contain sub-areas. There should be a header row, followed by the individual areas' entries. The sub-areas must be somehow distinguished from areas outside the general container area; because of the overall organization, the only real way to do this is to place container-areas at the end of each broad region's list.<br>
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| If anyone would like to take a crack at organizing this in a better fashion, please, be my guest- readability was my first priority, but it being four in the morning I may not have managed it.
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| -[[User:Id the Mildly Confused|Id the Mildly Confused]] 4:09 Daylight Savings Time 24 Aug 2005
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| From what I gathered, monster stats are not necessarily divisible by 5. Assuming stat gain is rounded, that means yetis could have stats from 103 to 107 - the safe moxie level being 108-112 respectively. If it's only rounded up/down however, stats would be 101-105/105-109, safe moxie level 106-110/110-114 This might be found out by insane amounts of testing with the MCD.<br>
| | == The Slime Tube == |
| That said, I wonder if it's worth investing such lots of work into this. His Jickness said [http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/viewtopic.php?p=1072170&highlight=#1072170 this] on the forums, so there will probably be changes.--[[User:Gorgolok|Gorgolok]]
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| *This issue was somewhat address by [[User:Oodleook|Oodleook]] below. If a monster has variable stat gain, that means the level of the monster falls between two divisions of five. If a monster has a set stat gain, as do the Yetis (21), the monster has a level divisible by five. In this case, the level of a Yeti is 105, and if the other assumptions made in this thread are correct, would always have stats of 105. --[[User:Snickles|Snickles]] 18:41, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
| | OK, the [[Slime Tube]] is a whole new kettle of fish. Because of the whole ML thing, I ended up having to make separate entries for each monster, and a note down below. Is this OK, or is there a better way to do it? --[[User:SoItBegins|SoItBegins]] 09:21, 25 June 2009 (UTC) |
| | *I would argue that, since all 'flavors' of slime are the same base monster, use that information for the zone as a whole - don't break it apart by beastie. People who boost ML already take into account the impact it has on the safe adventuring levels of other monsters elsewhere; I don't see why the slime tube should be any different. --[[User:Parse|Parse]] 16:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC) |
| | *OK, fixed --[[User:SoItBegins|SoItBegins]] 20:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC) |
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| Id, what a great article - thanks for putting it up! Would you mind if I renamed it to Locations by Moxie? That name would conform better with our existing naming methodology (users looking for "Areas by Moxie" would automatically be redirected to "Locations by Moxie"). --[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 13:48, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)<br>
| | == Flipped out Sea == |
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| Gorgolok: I think that Kittiwake rounded up, because what he was looking for was the minimum Moxie that would <i>guarantee</i> safety. There's been some discussion about whether his data are correct in all cases- you or I or someone else might want to watch the forum thread ( http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/viewtopic.php?t=39973 ) on the subject.<br>
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| Gymnosophist: Hehe.. No problem! Locations by Moxie it is. (I'll let you make the change- I don't know how.) As far as putting amounts of work into it... Well, I didn't have anything better to do.<br>
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| And to whoever reformatted the table and added links... Thanks! It looks much better now. =)
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| -[[User:Id the Mildly Confused|Id the Mildly Confused]] 15:09 Daylight Savings Time 24 Aug 2005<br>
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| I put up an alternate version: [[Locations_by_Moxie_2]]. 15:48 DST.
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| *As you can see, I've made some big structural changes.
| | Would it be worth it to include a listing for the [[flipping out]] fish in the [[The Briniest Deepests]] while under the effects of [[fishbreath]]? It boosts them quite a bit, to the tune that I was being hit when my moxie was in the 600s. --[[User:Bobulus|Bobulus]] 23:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC) |
| **Moved the table from [[Locations by Moxie_2]] into the original master page. Now, all the information is in one place.
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| **Renamed (moved) the original page ([[Areas by Moxie]]) to [[Safe Adventuring]]. The consolidation of the data made both the original page name as well as my contemplated new name of Locations by Moxie not appropriate to the page data. I think Safe Adventuring works well, but we can always change it again if necessary.
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| **Both [[Areas by Moxie]] and [[Locations by Moxie 2]] now serve as redirects to [[Safe Adventuring]]. This way, if someone had the old page bookmarked or if they were searching for the old names, they'll still get to the right place.
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| **I haven't gotten to it yet, but the Sorted by Location table will be shuffled a bit to match the existing order in [[locations]]. I live for standardization. :)
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| :--[[User:Gymnosophist|Gymnosophist]] 18:43, 25 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
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| The discussion here is a little disorganized. It might be beneficial if we organized this page a little so we could get all the necessary edits to the Moxie levels done. I think we need to decide if people are going to leave edit requests by location or by "too high/too low". Right now we have it both ways. Personally, I think it would be easiest just to have a "too high" section and a "too low" section. Also, maybe we need a place to put old edit requests that have already been incorporated into the moxie listings so what needs to be incorporated and what is already done. Also, when people leave edit requests, remember to pay attention to whether you had the Mind Control Device on. I made that mistake and I felt like an idiot.--[[User:Mustard|Mustard]] 22:48, 5 March 2006 (CST)
| | == Themthar hills == |
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| ==Monster Level==
| | The list claims that 176 is the safety limit for Themthar hills but with 178 moxie I keep getting hit annoyingly often. And they're not criticals either. I'd like to know if there even is such a thing as a safety level nowadays. My theory is that it's somehow Gaussian so that there's ''always'' a slight chance of getting hit with a regular, no matter how high your stats are. It's just that it gets very close to 0 so it may be rounded down to 0, but that's my guess. Either that or the number is wrong. --[[User:Seko|Seko]] 07:19, 8 February 2008 (CST) |
| Stats are not rounded down when converting from Monster Level - they were once, but Jick changed that. A level 13 monster would give you 3 stat points 60% of the time and 2 stat points 40% of the time. I did look at good number of monster levels from the raw data from Grignr's [http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~magnusrk/kol/advres.php Adventure Results page] once. For example, the monster levels for the monsters in [[Menagerie Level 1]] appear to be 50, 53 and 56. Still, I'm not sure of the connection between monster level and moxie needed to avoid - the data suggests that the monster level in the Back Alley should be the same as the Outskirts and the Kitchen - but the Back Alley is definitely a harder place to fight. --[[User:Oodleook|Oodleook]] 17:08, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
| | *Obvious questions first: are you running +[[Monster Level]]? Does the four-point [[Monster Level#Monster Level Variance|Monster Level Variance]] explain what you're seeing? I think a couple of reliable people went through each area and measured ML pretty accurately after NS13 hit, so I'm pretty confident about the common monsters' listed MLs. --[[User:Bagatelle|Bagatelle]] 19:04, 8 February 2008 (CST) |
| *The alley might appear harder to fight due to various reasons. Monsters there have an elemental attack (stench damage)and they can poison you. Also, that early in game it might depend strongly on your character class settings, which area is easiest for you.--[[User:Gorgolok|Gorgolok]] | | **I'm having the same problem...no buffed monster levels or anything of the sort. Currently at Moxie 182 and rising... [[User:Minty Yoshi|Minty Yoshi]] 20:11, 9 April 2008 (CDT) |
| *I would suggest that in the case of the early areas (specifically, the [[Outskirts of Cobb's Knob]], [[The Sleazy Back Alley]], [[The Haunted Pantry]], [[The Spooky Forest]]), the stat gain is neither rounded or approximated-through-frequency-rounding, so much as simply increased to the minimum of 1, which effectively obfuscates their actual stats within the 1-5 range, and I must shamefacedly confess I've been too lazy to carefully check and record these areas with varied MCD settings. Also consider that monsters do appear - and this has been confirmed on the forums in the past, I believe - to have individually set Muscle and Moxie, though the two are usually fairly close to each other. This means that the point at which you can always hit is not always the same at which you can no longer be hit, depending on the monster (hence the occasional battle in which neither party can hit reliably). --[[User:Stoop|Stoop]] 19:08, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
| | ***It's not a problem. As I keep repeating, [[Monster Level#Monster Level Variance]] (which has apparently been updated to be 5%, and not 4 absolute points as stated in the bullet previous to yours). --[[User:Bagatelle|Bagatelle]] 20:24, 9 April 2008 (CDT) |
| *If I have +X to monster level, how much moxie do I need more than the moxie written??? | |
| *For each +1 Monster Level, just add +1 Moxie to these numbers --[[User:Kittiwake|Kittiwake]]
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| are you sure? I adventure in The Outskirts of Camp Logging Camp with the Mind Control set on 11 and 21 moxie, yet the monsters succeded to hit me (10 moxie written + 11 monster level = 21 moxie I had)
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| * Because the Outskirts is such a low level, its hard to accurately predict the stats of the monsters in there. There is a minimum cap of 1 XP. That means the the monsters could have anywhere from 1 to 5 Muscle, and can require from 10-14 Moxie to dodge. This list assumes they have just 1. So, what is needed to dodge 100% is estimated, and may be wrong. You may need more than 10, so having 21 at +11 may not be enough. Its also difficult to find their exact stats too. So right now... i'd just say to either drop the MC some, or boost your Mox some. --[[User:Kittiwake|Kittiwake]] | |
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| ==Experimental Data== | | == Hobopolis == |
| Roobarb: I've started collecting experimental data on Maximum Unsafe Moxie, by recording the highest moxie at which a monster can hit me and the lowest moxie at which it has never succeeded. Are people interested in using this to fine tune the data? It will help to correct any entries in the table that are too low. For example, I rank the Cobb's Knob Treasury as requiring Moxie 37, not 35.
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| *I've been hit at 189 moxie in the hedge maze, twice in 3 adventures --[[User:Sors|Sors]] 17:12, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
| | Are there plans to add Hobopolis levels to the list? The minimum safe moxie is still being spaded (I'm not up to speed on the formulas), but it might be worthwhile adding placeholders, that is, if it's appropriate to add that info here. --[[User:Itsatrap|Itsatrap]] 01:00, 18 August 2008 (CDT) |
| * I was hit twice last night in the treasury with a moxie of 37. Moxie sign, no +ML. 38 seemed to do the trick for me. --[[User:Snickles|Snickles]] 07:45, 25 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
| | *Y'know, Hobopolis is going to need its own note, come to think of it. The special attacks hit automatically. --'''<nowiki>[</nowiki>'''[[User:TechSmurf|TechSmurf]]''']<nowiki>[</nowiki>'''[[User talk:TechSmurf|T]]''']<nowiki>[</nowiki>'''[[Special:Contributions/TechSmurf|C]]''']''' 01:25, 18 August 2008 (CDT) |
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| * I have been hit twice in the Treasury with a moxie of 38. Both times by the elite guards. --[[User:Tagliatelle|Tagliatelle]] 10:43, 24th October 2005 (GMT)
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| * The values for the cyrpt are low as well. I've been hit in the nook and the cranny at moxie 61.
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| * I've just been hit twice in a row at the eXtreme slope with exactly 80 moxie. [[User:Worthstream|Worthstream]] 12:46, 29 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
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| :* The Icy Peak is wrong,too: getting hit regularly with 108 moxie (of course without +ML ;)[[User:Worthstream|Worthstream]] 07:45, 6 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
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| ::* Figured it out: Maximum unsafe moxie in the icy peak is 113 [[User:Worthstream|Worthstream]] 10:23, 9 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
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| * Roobarb, man, post said data- more information is always a help. -[[User: Id the Mildly Confused|Id]]
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| *Adventuring in the hedge maze with buffs and effects adding up to 190 moxie. At first I wasn't getting hit, but on the last turn of any of my effects (ie next turn moxie will be below 189), I was getting hit about every 2nd or 3rd time. If item effects can wear off before the end of a battle, this probably explains the problem, but if not, sounds like the value for this area is to low. [[User:Teffania|Teffania]] 11:00, 18 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
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| *Was just fighting the Boss Bat in his Lair and was being smacked around at Moxie of 37. [[User: Shimoto | Shimoto]]
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| *Went up against the Bonerdagon at 100 moxie. He managed 1 hit in. FuzzyW
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| *Got hit once in the Pirate's Cove, by a shifty pirate. 83 moxie, with MCD set at 7, which should match up with the listed 76 moxie required.
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| ==Too High==
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| some of them are way too high. especially the haunted pantry/cobb's knobb outskirts/sleazy back-alley. they say the safe moxie level is 10 but i can take it pretty easily with my first adventure of the game.
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| *These are not the values at which you can reasonably adventure in an area, but the moxie required to avoid ALL hits, ever. If you adventure in the Haunted Pantry with 2 moxie you'll survive, but you WILL be hit now and then.
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| --[[User:FlyingDutchman|FlyingDutchman]] 02:17, 9 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time) | |
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| ==Out of date/Many errors==
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| This page is wrong and way out of date with respect to the KoL forum thread mentioned above (http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/viewtopic.php?t=39973). The thread also shows individual monster strength, which is very useful and totally lacking anywhere in the wiki. If it was easy to fixed, I'd do it. A higher level solution is needed. -- Crowther (Sept 9, 2005)<br><br>
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| Except for the individual monster values, this has been fixed. The article now also links to the list on the forums. For individual monster strength, we would either have to incorporate it into each monster page, or just copy the whole list.--[[User:Payback|Payback]] 22:22, 11 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
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| <br>I updated the page, corresponding to the Forums values. Didn't add the Cloca Clola Wars, as they will probably be gone soon -- Residium (31. Oct, 2005)
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| ==Too Low==
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| The moxie level for the boss bat is wrong. I just now faced the Boss Bat at the listed moxie level (35) and I took a lot of damage. I won, but I still got hit. | |
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| I concur, I just got hit by the bossbat twice out of about a dozen times with moxie 37.
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| [[User:Teffania|Teffania]]
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| I just got hit by a [[Vine Gar]] in the [[Spectral Pickle Factory]] with a moxie of 207 (and no +ML, I checked) -- hopefully I'll have enough adventures to test the boundary. --Doctor Fettuccini
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| And I the same as the good Doctor above, but with a moxie of 209 - sacarasc
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| I just spend 190 adventures in the Knob Kitchens with 86 base moxie (the article says I only need 31) and I lost about 70HP. I was using KoLMafia, but I glanced over every once in a while and it appeared to come from 4-5 instances, not just a few points here and there throughout. Also, I did the whole thing with 15 drunkenness (out of 20), though I'm certainly I've lost HP before while totally sober. --[[User:Patik|Patik]] 12:25, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
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| *Were you wearing a clockwork suit or any other sort of item that reduces fumbling chance? If not then that would be the cause of the lost health. Fumbling during attacking can add up if you do 190 adventures in one place.--[[User:SomeStranger|SomeStranger]] <small>([[User talk:SomeStranger|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/SomeStranger|Contribs]])</small> 12:51, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
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| Today I was adventuring against my nemesis in The Dark and....Cave with moxie 20 and I got hit twice during the one adventure of combat (about 15 turns). Admittedly only for 1 point each time. This was item-buffed moxie...base moxie was at 14.--[[User:Nospine|Nospine]] 21:25, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
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| ==Typical Tavern==
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| Has the safe level of adventuring changed with the new click on darkness square tavern quest? I'm not getting hit at moxie 15 (only tried about 20 adventues so far), but I'm aware that I could just be very lucky. So - has anyone checked this?
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| [[User:Teffania|Teffania]] | |
| postscript: I've just realised that I hadn't encountered the Baron yet when i wrote the above, so that might skew the stats, but if he does scale his stats to yours, it probably isn't possible to calculate a safe moxie for him.
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| [[User:Teffania|Teffania]]
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| Nope, you're just getting lucky there. Its also impossible to hit 100% dodge rate on the Baron (at least, we think that now) due to the way the scales (however that is), so he has been intentionally left out - [[User:Kittiwake|Kittiwake]]
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| ==Camp Logging Camp==
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| I was just hit at the Camp Logging Camp (by a lumberjack supervisor) with a moxie of 47, currently the limit.
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| ==Minimum Moxie vs. stat Gain==
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| If you graph the safe adventuring value vs. the statgain from the toughest monster, you get a nice line with a slope of .18.
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| In other words, the substat gain from a monster is the minimum Moxie you need to never get hit by it, multiplied by approiximately .18. Probably you could get this number from the base formulas, but I just wanted to share. ^_^ --[[User:Starwed|Starwed]] 09:08, 15 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)
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| ==Minimum Muscle?==
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| I think there should be a seperate page about how much muscle you need to hit a monster, because I need to know how much muscle you need to hit a monster at the Penultimate Fantasy Airship. --[[User:Bobbo|Bobbo]] 11:45, 4 January 2006 (Central Standard Time)
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| *I agree. I remember craving a page like that for a while... --[[User:NewZorkBat|NewZorkBat]] 14:32, 12 January 2006 (Central Standard Time)
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| ** Well, you could just check the original list for that. Generally, the to-hit 100% for Muscle is nearly, if not always, the same as the 100% Dodge rate --[[User:Kittiwake|Kittiwake]]
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| ==The Obligatory Pirate's Cove==
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| Just another data point, with 77 Moxie, I just got whacked twice in one adventure by a Shifty Pirate.<br>
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| -- [[user:Snugglypoo|Snugglypoo]] 1:50PM 12 January 2006 (EST)
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| ==Conflicting Numbers==
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| Things on the moxie side have gotten mixed up lately, but what's with the Dark Elbow of the Woods having values on 58 AND 75 in the two different lists? Anyone want to confirm those and/or clean up the mess? --[[User:Jinya|jin]] 23:53, 24 January 2006 (Central Standard Time)
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| Numbers for the Goblin King are also conflicting, listed as 62 on the left and 66 on the right.
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| * Sorry, that was me. I was updating a bunch of values, and must of missed a few. Should be all fixed and fine now --[[:Kittiwake|Kittiwake]]
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| ==Thugnderdome==
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| After a day and a half (~300 adventures) farming the Thugnderdome, I'm convinced that the vicious gnauga is a level 45 monster, so I would expect the "Safe Adventuring" moxie level to be 55, rather than 50. I was well above this moxie level (more than double), so I never got hit... but anyone adventuring here at lower levels might wish to exercise a bit more caution. (Raw data: 52 vicious gnauga adventures total, including some from previous days; every single one gave 9 substat points.) --[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 13:56, 7 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)
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| ==Hippie Camp==
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| <strike>I just took damage in the hippie campe with 55 moxie. It was something like 11 stench damage, fighting a dirty hippy (female).</strike>
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| Ah, nm, I forgot i had the MCD set to 11. --[[User:Starwed|Starwed]] 14:51, 15 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)
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| ==Fernswarthy's Tower==
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| I just took damage from a Chowder Golem with a buffed Moxie of 32 and the MCD set to 6. If the min Moxie needed is really 26 I shouldn't have gotten hot at all.--[[User:Mustard|Mustard]] 14:49, 17 March 2006 (CST)
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| The entry of 26 here clearly looks wrong. The original Kittiwake/Cisco data puts it at 33, and the wiki page for this location lists the Bread Golem as having a monster level of 24. So 33 looks like the right number for here, and that's what I'm going to change it to. --[[User:Greg1104|Greg1104]] 22:34, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
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| ==[[The Spectral Pickle Factory]]==
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| I just took damage from all 3 monsters ([[carnivorous dill plant]], [[ghostly pickle factory worker]], [[vine gar]]) with a buffed Moxie of 207 and the MCD set to 0 (muscle sign). This is above the quoted min moxie of 205.--[[User:Roger_B|Roger_B]] 23:31, 01 April 2006 (GMT)
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| ==Degrassi Knoll==
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| I just got hit by a Gnollish War Chef with a net moxie of 33, with the MCD on 11. --[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 17:30, 15 May 2006 (CDT)
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| You're fighting a Ninja Snowman Weaponmaster
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| A whirling tornado of blades, chains, and spikes suddenly hurtles toward you from the shadowy corner of the temple. You think maybe there's a ninja snowman in the middle of all that flashing steel, but it's hard to tell... if there is, he must have about twelve arms.
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| He gets the jump on you.
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| He backflips over your head, clocking you with the end of a weighted chain while slashing you in the arse. Eek! Ooh! Ouch! Eek!
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| You lose 13 hit points.<br>
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| <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< | |
| Using a Sombrero at 10 (buffed) pounds. It gains a pound after the battle.
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| I hit him for 10, 16, 17, 40 (crit).
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| >>>>>>>><br>
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| Hat: chrome helmet turtle (Power: 120)<br>
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| Weapon: acoustic guitarrr (Power: 100)<br>
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| Pants: grass skirt (Power: 80)<br>
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| Accessory: Sneaky Pete's breath spray<br>
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| Accessory: Sneaky Pete's breath spray<br>
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| Accessory: Sneaky Pete's breath spray<br>
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| Familiar: tiny maracas<br>
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| Mus: 34 (29) <br>
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| Mys: 43 (38) <br>
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| Mox: 99 (59) <br>
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| Drunk: 10<br>
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| You gain 4 Muscleboundness.<br>
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| You gain 6 Wizardliness.<br>
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| You gain 15 Chutzpah.<br>
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| <<<<<<<<
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| This is a moxie day.
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| The chart says that 99 moxie is the cutoff for this place. Did I do something wrong? -[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 03:34, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
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| ==Cola Wars Battelefield==
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| Safe Moxie for the Cola Wars Battlefield is listed as 39 in both tables. On [[The Cola Wars Battlefield]] page, however, the monsters are all reported to be level 40, requiring a Moxie of 49 to be safe. As this is a potentially lethal typo, perhaps someone could look into it? --[[User:Baltar|Baltar]] 13:15, 7 July 2006 (CDT)
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| ==The Great Trip==
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| I have just defeated the "Angels of Avalon" and recived 6 muscle, 8 magicalness and 17 roguishness. Timesing them by 5 I get 30, 40 and 85 which gives me a grand total of 155, pluss 9 to that is 164. Have I made a mistake or are there errors in the way this is worked out, or is this the new safe level for the great trip?--[[User:Enemy Lasagna|Enemy Lasagna]] 10:16, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
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| Are you sure it was not a stat day? --[[User:McDutchy|McDutchy]] 19:08, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
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| ==Recent Changes==
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| The values for a couple spots in the Bat Hole were changed a little bit ago. Anyone know if the values were acutally wrong, or if there were critical hits or +ML going on?--[[User:Squi|Squi]] 07:48, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
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| ==New Combat Mechanics==
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| *Combat mechanics changed, probably when monster fumbles/crits happened. The moxie range is now from -6 (monster always hits) to +7 (monster always misses; at +7 moxie relative to attack the odds of getting hit are non-zero but indistinguishable from the monster critical rate, and probably stem from [[Monster Level|ML variation]]). The to-hit range is now from -6 (always miss) to +5 (always hit). See [http://forums.hardcoreoxygenation.com/viewtopic.php?t=2945 HCO forums for more details including graphs]. Also, the monster critical and monster fumble rates are 6%. This guide should be revised to cite Atk+7 rather than Atk+9 as the new 'Safe' moxie level.
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| ==Hole in the Sky==
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| The safe adventuring number appears to be wrong for the Hole in the Sky - I'm playing as an Accordion Thief and I have 187 base Moxie (boosted to 200) and monsters such as the Burrowing Bishop and the Hooded Warrior can still hit me - can anyone explain this? --[[User:Damuna|Damuna]] 08:51, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
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| *Well, there is always the chance that you are getting hit by [[critical hit]]s, although it shouldn't happen too often. Also, are you sure you're not boosting [[Monster Level]] in any way? --[[User:TheDotGamer|TheDotGamer]] 09:49, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
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| == Update for Haunted Gallery? ==
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| I got hit for ~20 damage 7 times in a row in the Haunted Gallery with 122 moxie. Is it possible I was just really really unlucky, or does this need updating?
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| (I was fighting an empty suit of armor, and did NOT have tetanus)
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| *I just think you were '''real''' unlucky. --[[User:Zerstu|Zerstu]] 11:47,15 June 2007
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| (CDT)
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| == Worm Wood ==
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| [[The Worm Wood]] areas are still missing:
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| * [[The Mouldering Mansion]]
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| * [[The Rogue Windmill]]
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| * [[The Stately Pleasure Dome]]
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| Can someone who has the relevant info add these areas?
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| Thanks -- [[User:Zucker|Zucker]] 01:25, 28 July 2007 (CDT)
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| == Gremlins and "Safe Moxie"? == | | == Addition of "except" messages to the Cyrpt == |
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| I notice that there is a listed Moxie for the Gremlins of the Junkyard, but due to their ability to always hit, I wonder if this is appropriate. They will certainly have a calculable monster level, but are the exception to the rule of this page, in that there is no (currently determined, presumably ever) Moxie level that will prevent them from hitting you. Keeping in mind that this page is "safe adventuring via moxie" as opposed to something a bit more nebulous like "one hit kill capacity" or "large HP pool" or (less nebulous) "Muscle required to hit an enemy", I'd think that perhaps they should have their own seperate note stating there is no "safe Moxie level" for them, as opposed to having a stated but essentially incorrect level. Thoughts? [[User:Bakapyrite|Bakapyrite]] 14:52, 20 August 2007 (CDT) | | * I updated the page today; here is a list of changes: |
| | ** Removed the except message for Felonia; she appears to be a normal monster, as far as I can tell. If she has some sort of exceptional attack, why is it not documented in the Wiki? |
| | ** Added except messages to the 4 Cyrpt zones, also shifting their position on the right table. |
| | ** Added more detail to the existing except message for the Baron and the hulking construct. |
| | ** I considered doing the same thing I did to the Cyrpt to the Boss Bat Lair, as one NEEDS to spend at least two adventures there fighting guards, but I think this is trivial and that zone should be left the way it is. |
| | ** Is my usage of commas correct? I'm not quite sure. |
| | ** Hey mods, if you are reading this, please consider cleaning up this page, most of the discussion here are extremely dated. |
| | Cheers! --[[User:Zamiel|Zamiel]] 19:44, 21 October 2008 (UTC) |
| | ==Archived== |
| | This talk page was very long, so I've archived everything that hasn't been started this year to clear this page up. --[[User:Lordebon|Lordebon]] 16:50, 2 November 2008 (UTC) |
| | *Thanks Lordebon! >< --[[User:Zamiel|Zamiel]] 18:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC) |
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| ==McMillicancuddy's Farm (Post-War) Update== | | == Hit points? == |
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| I've been farming the farm at 248(243) moxie and am still getting hit with elemental damage. Does moxie not apply to this hit type? --[[User:Xclockwatcher|Xclockwatcher]] 07:18, 5 September 2007 (CDT) | | I don't know about anyone else, but the number of hit points the monsters have is a very significant part of my adventure planning. I need to know how fast I'm going to take them down. So, what do we think about adding a column to the tables on this page, showing the highest number of monster HP in the area? We'd need to add a warning about the HP variance, of course, alongside the ML variance. |
| *Are you being hit critically or normally? If normally, then the figure in the table is likely wrong. --[[User:Bagatelle|Bagatelle]] 16:37, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
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| **It's possible the hits were crits, as I'm farming for duct tape I'll look closer this time. --[[User:Xclockwatcher|Xclockwatcher]] 10:44, 7 September 2007 (CDT)
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| ***The other possibility is if you're increasing [[Monster Level]] somehow. --[[User:Bagatelle|Bagatelle]] 16:48, 7 September 2007 (CDT)
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| == Pyramid - The Middle Chamber - 'Safe Moxie'==
| | It'd end up looking something like this: (bogus data is used in this example) |
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| I've spent roughly 35 adventures in the Middle Chamber and have been hit several times (only once per turn) by every monster my moxie is 204 unbuffed and 238 buffed perhaps the moxie for no hit needs to be amended?
| | {| width="100%" |
| The hits are not even critical hits and i'm not doing anything to increase monster level. | | | width="50%" valign="top" | |
| | {| style="text-align: center" border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" |
| | |- style="background-color: #EFEFEF; font-size:13pt" |
| | | colspan="3" | '''Sorted by Location''' |
| | |- style="background-color: #EFEFEF" |
| | | '''Area''' |
| | | '''Moxie''' |
| | | '''HP''' |
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| | | colspan="3" | '''[[The Nearby Plains]]''' |
| | |- |
| | | [[Degrassi Knoll]] |
| | | 24 |
| | | 1 |
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| | | [[A Battlefield|Cola Wars Battlefield]] |
| | | 40 |
| | | 2 |
| | |- |
| | | [[The "Fun" House]]<br />(except for [[The Clownlord Beelzebozo]] at 38) |
| | | 30 |
| | | 3 |
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| | | [[The Misspelled Cemetary (Pre-Cyrpt)]] |
| | | 33 |
| | | 4 |
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| | | [[The Misspelled Cemetary (Post-Cyrpt)]] |
| | | 69 |
| | | 5 |
| | |- |
| | | [[The Palindome]]<br />(except for [[Dr. Awkward]], at 176-183) |
| | | 165 |
| | | 6 |
| | |- |
| | | [[The Spectral Pickle Factory]] |
| | | 206 |
| | | 7 |
| | |} |
| | | valign="top" | |
| | {| style="text-align: center" border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" align="right" |
| | |- style="background-color: #EFEFEF; font-size:13pt" |
| | | colspan="3" | '''Sorted by Moxie''' |
| | |- style="background-color: #EFEFEF" |
| | | '''Area''' |
| | | '''Moxie''' |
| | | '''HP''' |
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| | | [[Seaside Town]]: [[The Sleazy Back Alley]] |
| | | 11 |
| | | 8 |
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| | | [[Seaside Town]] / [[Spookyraven Manor]]: [[The Haunted Pantry]] |
| | | 12 |
| | | 9 |
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| | | [[The Nearby Plains]]: [[Outskirts of Cobb's Knob]] |
| | | 12 |
| | | 10 |
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| | | [[Seaside Town]]: [[Outskirts of Camp Logging Camp]] |
| | | 13 |
| | | 11 |
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| | | [[Seaside Town]]: [[The Haiku Dungeon]] |
| | | 14 |
| | | 12 |
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| | | [[Spookyraven Manor]]: [[The Haunted Kitchen]] |
| | | 15 |
| | | 13 |
| | |- |
| | | [[The Distant Woods]]: [[The Spooky Forest]] |
| | | 15 |
| | | 14 |
| | |} |
| | |} |
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| --[[User:Djinn|Djinn]] 18:24, 16 September 2007 (CDT) | | ==Updating== |
| | So I'm in the process of updating this page, and I need to know a couple things: |
| | * Why on Earth would you use two tables? Given that we have sorting capabilities, it would seem like a no-brainer to reverse the original decision to have two separate tables. |
| | **If we go with one table, fields would be LocNo, Zone, Location, Name, Safe Moxie...e.g., 112 -- Seaside Zone:Wrong Side of Town -- Sleazy Back Alley -- 11 |
| | * The explanation of how to derive Safe Moxie seems...overly complicated, and not necessarily correct. I think the explanation should not include how to derive Monster Attack, but instead, just simply state the following: |
| | **Safe Moxie is determined by adding 10 to the ''highest'' possible Monster Attack in the zone. Thus if the highest level for a zone is 180, the highest possible MA is 185 (base of 180 + 5 for variance), and 195 is the Safe Moxie for that zone. |
| | *If we go that route, most of these need to be recalculated. This would allow for removing some of the equivocating on the page about MA and variance. |
| | --[[User:Foggy|Foggy]] 22:31, 8 July 2011 (CEST) |
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| == Themthar hills ==
| | :Is the variance +5 or +5%? The reason I ask is, in the [[Talk:Safe Adventuring#Themthar hills|Themthar hills talk point above]], [[User:Bagatelle|Bagatelle]] states that the variance is 5% instead of a hard number.--[[User:Magered|MageRed]] 05:15, 9 July 2011 (CEST) |
| | ::5% with a maximum of +/- 5. If the MA is 40, then the variance is +/- 2, e.g. Most of this is covered under [[Monster Level]].--[[User:Foggy|Foggy]] 07:35, 9 July 2011 (CEST) |
| | :::Not seeing that on the [[Monster Level|ML]] mainpage, but just read it in the [[Talk:Monster_Level#Conflicting_Variance_Figures|talk]] section, thanks.--[[User:Magered|MageRed]] 09:51, 9 July 2011 (CEST) |
| | ::::Sorry...should have pointed you to [[Monsters#Monster Level Variance]]...my bad.--[[User:Foggy|Foggy]] 22:10, 9 July 2011 (CEST) |
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| The list claims that 176 is the safety limit for Themthar hills but with 178 moxie I keep getting hit annoyingly often. And they're not criticals either. I'd like to know if there even is such a thing as a safety level nowadays. My theory is that it's somehow Gaussian so that there's ''always'' a slight chance of getting hit with a regular, no matter how high your stats are. It's just that it gets very close to 0 so it may be rounded down to 0, but that's my guess. Either that or the number is wrong. --[[User:Seko|Seko]] 07:19, 8 February 2008 (CST)
| | *Do we yet have sound figures for the new Castle areas? It looks as though we do, although I have to say that I have found one or two of the new giants seem tougher than their wiki pages suggest. -- [[User:Wertperch|Wertperch]] ([[User talk:Wertperch|talk]]) 17:43, 1 March 2013 (UTC) |
| *Obvious questions first: are you running +[[Monster Level]]? Does the four-point [[Monster Level#Monster Level Variance|Monster Level Variance]] explain what you're seeing? I think a couple of reliable people went through each area and measured ML pretty accurately after NS13 hit, so I'm pretty confident about the common monsters' listed MLs. --[[User:Bagatelle|Bagatelle]] 19:04, 8 February 2008 (CST)
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| **I'm having the same problem...no buffed monster levels or anything of the sort. Currently at Moxie 182 and rising... [[User:Minty Yoshi|Minty Yoshi]] 20:11, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
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| ***It's not a problem. As I keep repeating, [[Monster Level#Monster Level Variance]] (which has apparently been updated to be 5%, and not 4 absolute points as stated in the bullet previous to yours). --[[User:Bagatelle|Bagatelle]] 20:24, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
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| == Hobopolis ==
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| Are there plans to add Hobopolis levels to the list? The minimum safe moxie is still being spaded (I'm not up to speed on the formulas), but it might be worthwhile adding placeholders, that is, if it's appropriate to add that info here. --[[User:Itsatrap|Itsatrap]] 01:00, 18 August 2008 (CDT)
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