Talk:Safe Adventuring

With the introduction of monster crits, the data on this page is largely useless. Not to say people will like not getting hit my a monster's normal attacks, but its a nasty surprise to get critted when you don't expect to get hit at all. --Trendytotebag 00:30, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

Regarding the organization of this page, I realize that it may be, as Jick would say, a little janky. Here's my rationale:
1. Sort first by the order in which broad areas open up. Having above-the-beanstalk areas later in the list than distant woods areas makes the list a little more topical in organization, and thus easier to search.
2. Sort second by amount of Moxie required, because this is probably about the same as the order in which the areas become available. Except:
3. Some areas contain sub-areas. There should be a header row, followed by the individual areas' entries. The sub-areas must be somehow distinguished from areas outside the general container area; because of the overall organization, the only real way to do this is to place container-areas at the end of each broad region's list.

If anyone would like to take a crack at organizing this in a better fashion, please, be my guest- readability was my first priority, but it being four in the morning I may not have managed it. -Id the Mildly Confused 4:09 Daylight Savings Time 24 Aug 2005

From what I gathered, monster stats are not necessarily divisible by 5. Assuming stat gain is rounded, that means yetis could have stats from 103 to 107 - the safe moxie level being 108-112 respectively. If it's only rounded up/down however, stats would be 101-105/105-109, safe moxie level 106-110/110-114 This might be found out by insane amounts of testing with the MCD.
That said, I wonder if it's worth investing such lots of work into this. His Jickness said this on the forums, so there will probably be changes.--Gorgolok

• This issue was somewhat address by Oodleook below. If a monster has variable stat gain, that means the level of the monster falls between two divisions of five. If a monster has a set stat gain, as do the Yetis (21), the monster has a level divisible by five. In this case, the level of a Yeti is 105, and if the other assumptions made in this thread are correct, would always have stats of 105. --Snickles 18:41, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Id, what a great article - thanks for putting it up! Would you mind if I renamed it to Locations by Moxie? That name would conform better with our existing naming methodology (users looking for "Areas by Moxie" would automatically be redirected to "Locations by Moxie"). --Gymnosophist 13:48, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Gorgolok: I think that Kittiwake rounded up, because what he was looking for was the minimum Moxie that would guarantee safety. There's been some discussion about whether his data are correct in all cases- you or I or someone else might want to watch the forum thread ( http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/viewtopic.php?t=39973 ) on the subject.
Gymnosophist: Hehe.. No problem! Locations by Moxie it is. (I'll let you make the change- I don't know how.) As far as putting amounts of work into it... Well, I didn't have anything better to do.
And to whoever reformatted the table and added links... Thanks! It looks much better now. =) -Id the Mildly Confused 15:09 Daylight Savings Time 24 Aug 2005
I put up an alternate version: Locations_by_Moxie_2. 15:48 DST.

• As you can see, I've made some big structural changes.
  • Moved the table from Locations by Moxie_2 into the original master page. Now, all the information is in one place.
  • Renamed (moved) the original page (Areas by Moxie) to Safe Adventuring. The consolidation of the data made both the original page name as well as my contemplated new name of Locations by Moxie not appropriate to the page data. I think Safe Adventuring works well, but we can always change it again if necessary.
  • Both Areas by Moxie and Locations by Moxie 2 now serve as redirects to Safe Adventuring. This way, if someone had the old page bookmarked or if they were searching for the old names, they'll still get to the right place.
  • I haven't gotten to it yet, but the Sorted by Location table will be shuffled a bit to match the existing order in locations. I live for standardization.  :)

--Gymnosophist 18:43, 25 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

The discussion here is a little disorganized. It might be beneficial if we organized this page a little so we could get all the necessary edits to the Moxie levels done. I think we need to decide if people are going to leave edit requests by location or by "too high/too low". Right now we have it both ways. Personally, I think it would be easiest just to have a "too high" section and a "too low" section. Also, maybe we need a place to put old edit requests that have already been incorporated into the moxie listings so what needs to be incorporated and what is already done. Also, when people leave edit requests, remember to pay attention to whether you had the Mind Control Device on. I made that mistake and I felt like an idiot.--Mustard 22:48, 5 March 2006 (CST)

Monster Level

Stats are not rounded down when converting from Monster Level - they were once, but Jick changed that. A level 13 monster would give you 3 stat points 60% of the time and 2 stat points 40% of the time. I did look at good number of monster levels from the raw data from Grignr's Adventure Results page once. For example, the monster levels for the monsters in Menagerie Level 1 appear to be 50, 53 and 56. Still, I'm not sure of the connection between monster level and moxie needed to avoid - the data suggests that the monster level in the Back Alley should be the same as the Outskirts and the Kitchen - but the Back Alley is definitely a harder place to fight. --Oodleook 17:08, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

• The alley might appear harder to fight due to various reasons. Monsters there have an elemental attack (stench damage)and they can poison you. Also, that early in game it might depend strongly on your character class settings, which area is easiest for you.--Gorgolok

I would suggest that in the case of the early areas (specifically, the Outskirts of Cobb's Knob, The Sleazy Back Alley, The Haunted Pantry, The Spooky Forest), the stat gain is neither rounded or approximated-through-frequency-rounding, so much as simply increased to the minimum of 1, which effectively obfuscates their actual stats within the 1-5 range, and I must shamefacedly confess I've been too lazy to carefully check and record these areas with varied MCD settings. Also consider that monsters do appear - and this has been confirmed on the forums in the past, I believe - to have individually set Muscle and Moxie, though the two are usually fairly close to each other. This means that the point at which you can always hit is not always the same at which you can no longer be hit, depending on the monster (hence the occasional battle in which neither party can hit reliably). --Stoop 19:08, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

• If I have +X to monster level, how much moxie do I need more than the moxie written???

• For each +1 Monster Level, just add +1 Moxie to these numbers --Kittiwake

are you sure? I adventure in The Outskirts of Camp Logging Camp with the Mind Control set on 11 and 21 moxie, yet the monsters succeded to hit me (10 moxie written + 11 monster level = 21 moxie I had)

• Because the Outskirts is such a low level, its hard to accurately predict the stats of the monsters in there. There is a minimum cap of 1 XP. That means the the monsters could have anywhere from 1 to 5 Muscle, and can require from 10-14 Moxie to dodge. This list assumes they have just 1. So, what is needed to dodge 100% is estimated, and may be wrong. You may need more than 10, so having 21 at +11 may not be enough. Its also difficult to find their exact stats too. So right now... i'd just say to either drop the MC some, or boost your Mox some. --Kittiwake

Experimental Data

Roobarb: I've started collecting experimental data on Maximum Unsafe Moxie, by recording the highest moxie at which a monster can hit me and the lowest moxie at which it has never succeeded. Are people interested in using this to fine tune the data? It will help to correct any entries in the table that are too low. For example, I rank the Cobb's Knob Treasury as requiring Moxie 37, not 35.

• I've been hit at 189 moxie in the hedge maze, twice in 3 adventures --Sors 17:12, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
• I was hit twice last night in the treasury with a moxie of 37. Moxie sign, no +ML. 38 seemed to do the trick for me. --Snickles 07:45, 25 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

• I have been hit twice in the Treasury with a moxie of 38. Both times by the elite guards. --Tagliatelle 10:43, 24th October 2005 (GMT)

• The values for the cyrpt are low as well. I've been hit in the nook and the cranny at moxie 61.

• I've just been hit twice in a row at the eXtreme slope with exactly 80 moxie. Worthstream 12:46, 29 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

• The Icy Peak is wrong,too: getting hit regularly with 108 moxie (of course without +ML ;)Worthstream 07:45, 6 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

• Figured it out: Maximum unsafe moxie in the icy peak is 113 Worthstream 10:23, 9 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

• Roobarb, man, post said data- more information is always a help. -Id

• Adventuring in the hedge maze with buffs and effects adding up to 190 moxie. At first I wasn't getting hit, but on the last turn of any of my effects (ie next turn moxie will be below 189), I was getting hit about every 2nd or 3rd time. If item effects can wear off before the end of a battle, this probably explains the problem, but if not, sounds like the value for this area is to low. Teffania 11:00, 18 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

• Was just fighting the Boss Bat in his Lair and was being smacked around at Moxie of 37. Shimoto

• Went up against the Bonerdagon at 100 moxie. He managed 1 hit in. FuzzyW

• Got hit once in the Pirate's Cove, by a shifty pirate. 83 moxie, with MCD set at 7, which should match up with the listed 76 moxie required.

Too High

some of them are way too high. especially the haunted pantry/cobb's knobb outskirts/sleazy back-alley. they say the safe moxie level is 10 but i can take it pretty easily with my first adventure of the game.

• These are not the values at which you can reasonably adventure in an area, but the moxie required to avoid ALL hits, ever. If you adventure in the Haunted Pantry with 2 moxie you'll survive, but you WILL be hit now and then.

--FlyingDutchman 02:17, 9 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Out of date/Many errors

This page is wrong and way out of date with respect to the KoL forum thread mentioned above (http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/viewtopic.php?t=39973). The thread also shows individual monster strength, which is very useful and totally lacking anywhere in the wiki. If it was easy to fixed, I'd do it. A higher level solution is needed. -- Crowther (Sept 9, 2005)

Except for the individual monster values, this has been fixed. The article now also links to the list on the forums. For individual monster strength, we would either have to incorporate it into each monster page, or just copy the whole list.--Payback 22:22, 11 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

I updated the page, corresponding to the Forums values. Didn't add the Cloca Clola Wars, as they will probably be gone soon -- Residium (31. Oct, 2005)

Too Low

The moxie level for the boss bat is wrong. I just now faced the Boss Bat at the listed moxie level (35) and I took a lot of damage. I won, but I still got hit.

I concur, I just got hit by the bossbat twice out of about a dozen times with moxie 37. Teffania

I just got hit by a Vine Gar in the Spectral Pickle Factory with a moxie of 207 (and no +ML, I checked) -- hopefully I'll have enough adventures to test the boundary. --Doctor Fettuccini

And I the same as the good Doctor above, but with a moxie of 209 - sacarasc

I just spend 190 adventures in the Knob Kitchens with 86 base moxie (the article says I only need 31) and I lost about 70HP. I was using KoLMafia, but I glanced over every once in a while and it appeared to come from 4-5 instances, not just a few points here and there throughout. Also, I did the whole thing with 15 drunkenness (out of 20), though I'm certainly I've lost HP before while totally sober. --Patik 12:25, 20 April 2006 (CDT)

• Were you wearing a clockwork suit or any other sort of item that reduces fumbling chance? If not then that would be the cause of the lost health. Fumbling during attacking can add up if you do 190 adventures in one place.--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 12:51, 20 April 2006 (CDT)

Today I was adventuring against my nemesis in The Dark and....Cave with moxie 20 and I got hit twice during the one adventure of combat (about 15 turns). Admittedly only for 1 point each time. This was item-buffed moxie...base moxie was at 14.--Nospine 21:25, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

Typical Tavern

Has the safe level of adventuring changed with the new click on darkness square tavern quest? I'm not getting hit at moxie 15 (only tried about 20 adventues so far), but I'm aware that I could just be very lucky. So - has anyone checked this? Teffania postscript: I've just realised that I hadn't encountered the Baron yet when i wrote the above, so that might skew the stats, but if he does scale his stats to yours, it probably isn't possible to calculate a safe moxie for him. Teffania

Nope, you're just getting lucky there. Its also impossible to hit 100% dodge rate on the Baron (at least, we think that now) due to the way the scales (however that is), so he has been intentionally left out - Kittiwake

Camp Logging Camp

I was just hit at the Camp Logging Camp (by a lumberjack supervisor) with a moxie of 47, currently the limit.

Minimum Moxie vs. stat Gain

If you graph the safe adventuring value vs. the statgain from the toughest monster, you get a nice line with a slope of .18.

In other words, the substat gain from a monster is the minimum Moxie you need to never get hit by it, multiplied by approiximately .18. Probably you could get this number from the base formulas, but I just wanted to share. ^_^ --Starwed 09:08, 15 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Minimum Muscle?

I think there should be a seperate page about how much muscle you need to hit a monster, because I need to know how much muscle you need to hit a monster at the Penultimate Fantasy Airship. --Bobbo 11:45, 4 January 2006 (Central Standard Time)

• I agree. I remember craving a page like that for a while... --NewZorkBat 14:32, 12 January 2006 (Central Standard Time)

• • Well, you could just check the original list for that. Generally, the to-hit 100% for Muscle is nearly, if not always, the same as the 100% Dodge rate --Kittiwake

The Obligatory Pirate's Cove

Just another data point, with 77 Moxie, I just got whacked twice in one adventure by a Shifty Pirate.
-- Snugglypoo 1:50PM 12 January 2006 (EST)

Conflicting Numbers

Things on the moxie side have gotten mixed up lately, but what's with the Dark Elbow of the Woods having values on 58 AND 75 in the two different lists? Anyone want to confirm those and/or clean up the mess? --jin 23:53, 24 January 2006 (Central Standard Time)

Numbers for the Goblin King are also conflicting, listed as 62 on the left and 66 on the right.

• Sorry, that was me. I was updating a bunch of values, and must of missed a few. Should be all fixed and fine now --Kittiwake

Thugnderdome

After a day and a half (~300 adventures) farming the Thugnderdome, I'm convinced that the vicious gnauga is a level 45 monster, so I would expect the "Safe Adventuring" moxie level to be 55, rather than 50. I was well above this moxie level (more than double), so I never got hit... but anyone adventuring here at lower levels might wish to exercise a bit more caution. (Raw data: 52 vicious gnauga adventures total, including some from previous days; every single one gave 9 substat points.) --Greycat 13:56, 7 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)

Hippie Camp

I just took damage in the hippie campe with 55 moxie. It was something like 11 stench damage, fighting a dirty hippy (female).

Ah, nm, I forgot i had the MCD set to 11. --Starwed 14:51, 15 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)

Fernswarthy's Tower

I just took damage from a Chowder Golem with a buffed Moxie of 32 and the MCD set to 6. If the min Moxie needed is really 26 I shouldn't have gotten hot at all.--Mustard 14:49, 17 March 2006 (CST)

The entry of 26 here clearly looks wrong. The original Kittiwake/Cisco data puts it at 33, and the wiki page for this location lists the Bread Golem as having a monster level of 24. So 33 looks like the right number for here, and that's what I'm going to change it to. --Greg1104 22:34, 12 May 2006 (CDT)

The Spectral Pickle Factory

I just took damage from all 3 monsters (carnivorous dill plant, ghostly pickle factory worker, vine gar) with a buffed Moxie of 207 and the MCD set to 0 (muscle sign). This is above the quoted min moxie of 205.--Roger_B 23:31, 01 April 2006 (GMT)

Degrassi Knoll

I just got hit by a Gnollish War Chef with a net moxie of 33, with the MCD on 11. --Greycat 17:30, 15 May 2006 (CDT)

You're fighting a Ninja Snowman Weaponmaster

A whirling tornado of blades, chains, and spikes suddenly hurtles toward you from the shadowy corner of the temple. You think maybe there's a ninja snowman in the middle of all that flashing steel, but it's hard to tell... if there is, he must have about twelve arms.

He gets the jump on you.

He backflips over your head, clocking you with the end of a weighted chain while slashing you in the arse. Eek! Ooh! Ouch! Eek! You lose 13 hit points.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Using a Sombrero at 10 (buffed) pounds. It gains a pound after the battle.

I hit him for 10, 16, 17, 40 (crit).

>>>>>>>>
Hat: chrome helmet turtle (Power: 120)
Weapon: acoustic guitarrr (Power: 100)
Pants: grass skirt (Power: 80)
Accessory: Sneaky Pete's breath spray
Accessory: Sneaky Pete's breath spray
Accessory: Sneaky Pete's breath spray
Familiar: tiny maracas
Mus: 34 (29)
Mys: 43 (38)
Mox: 99 (59)
Drunk: 10
You gain 4 Muscleboundness.
You gain 6 Wizardliness.
You gain 15 Chutzpah.
<<<<<<<< This is a moxie day.

The chart says that 99 moxie is the cutoff for this place. Did I do something wrong? -Raijinili 03:34, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

Cola Wars Battelefield

Safe Moxie for the Cola Wars Battlefield is listed as 39 in both tables. On The Cola Wars Battlefield page, however, the monsters are all reported to be level 40, requiring a Moxie of 49 to be safe. As this is a potentially lethal typo, perhaps someone could look into it? --Baltar 13:15, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

The Great Trip

I have just defeated the "Angels of Avalon" and recived 6 muscle, 8 magicalness and 17 roguishness. Timesing them by 5 I get 30, 40 and 85 which gives me a grand total of 155, pluss 9 to that is 164. Have I made a mistake or are there errors in the way this is worked out, or is this the new safe level for the great trip?--Enemy Lasagna 10:16, 20 July 2006 (CDT)