Talk:Summon Party Favor
Item Types Tied To Your Mainstat?
I am wondering if the rate of getting the different item types might be tied to the character's main stat? I used the skill 14 times as a Seal Clubber, and received - 8 divine noisemaker (mus), 2 divine can silly string (mys), 3 divine blowout (mox), and 1 divine champagne flute. Needs more spading for sure, but seems to me the muscle item was preferred, and it is my main stat. --Vovan 23:48, 3 January 2008 (CST)
I noticed the same, way more Noisemakers than the others (I'm a Clubber too). Also, the flute, cracker and the champagne popper seem to be a lot rarer than the others. --Denarius 23:52, 3 January 2008 (CST)
This is NOT the case. I'm playing a pastamancer, and I only got 4 cans of sillystring to 7 blowouts and 10 noismakers (or something like that). Also had 3 crackers and a flute, but no champagne poppers. --Wildfire393 09:52, 4 January 2008 (CST)
Jick mentioned that there were going to be common and uncommon summons on the radio show tonight. I am playing a Sauceror and received more noisemakers than any other summon. it appears to me that the champagne flute and champagne popper are in the uncommon group (for good reason) --Dannyboy 00:01, 4 January 2008 (CST)
Apparently summoning these is directly related to summoning your Candy Hearts. Casting cost works on the same dynamic, and the two affect each other. That seriously makes me angry. If I had known that, I might not have bought one. Right now I have summoned 16 Divine items, raising the casting cost to 170 to summon my next item. I have not summoned a single Candy Heart, and it would cost 170 to summon one. That is ridiculous. Basically using one IOTM renders the other useless day to day. Yes, you could alternate, but you're still getting cheated.
Oh and for spading, here's my tally out of 16 items.
1 Champagne Flute, 3 Cans Silly String, 5 Blowout, 1 Champagne Popper, 5 Noisemaker, 1 Cracker. --Brightbutt The Defenestrator 02:01, 4 January 2008 (CST)
- You should have known that. Did you look at the bookshelf? The shelf for Librams says, "Each time you use a Libram in a day, it'll take you more and more energy to use another one. Or the same one again." Seems pretty spelled out to me that using Librams increases the cost for Librams as a whole. And in the future, when other Tomes and Grimoires come out, you're only going to be able to use one of each in any given day.--Terion 08:54, 4 January 2008 (CST)
- Except, here's the trick - some of us bought/acquired the IOTM before seeing the bookshelf. Like myself, for example. I agree with Brightie, there: that's a significant negative for this IOTM. Generally, I don't find the MP to be worth spending on Favors instead of Hearts ... maybe if we got 2 Favors per use, instead of 1, I would feel differently. But we don't. --Bork 23:45, 4 January 2008 (CST)
- Do you buy and use Mr. Store familiar hatchlings without finding out what they do first? This is tantamount to the same thing. And Favors are better than hearts in the later part of a run, making them a good complement (hearts get a little weak in the lategame). --Wildfire393 00:08, 5 January 2008 (CST)
14 items: 1 Flute, 1 Cracker, 4 Cans/String, 4 Blowout, 4 Noisemaker, 0 Popper. Sauceror. --Cookie3 02:18, 4 January 2008 (CST)
Actually, Grimoires(which I expect to be generally less powerful than Librams or Tomes) will all be one use each per day, i.e. once for each, while tomes will be only one tome at all per day. The mechanic doesn't hurt any of the current books as we stood before Jan's book, but as new books are added, it'll start requiring choices from people, but those that want to hold onto new books but only use the original 3 aren't hurt by this change at all. - godskook
Lvl 32 Seal clubber here... Used book 32 times and got 11 silly string, 7 blowout, 2 popper, 2 cracker, 9 noisemaker, 1 flute --Dibbin 11:07, 4 January 2008 (CST)
Lvl 11 Turtle Tamer - Used book 11 times, got 3 silly strings, 4 blowouts, 2 noisemakers, 1 popper, 1 cracker, 0 flutes.--DuckAndCower 13:49, 4 January 2008 (CST)
Lvl32 Seal Clubber - Ive used the libram 275 times and received the following: blowout(63) can(73) flute(8) popper(14) cracker(20) noisemaker(97) --Dibbin 11:33, 18 January 2008 (CST)
"Specials" Limit Theory
OK, so in my first dozen summons, I recieved something like 4 divine crackers, and I nabbed a divine champagne flute around 15 summons. I never received any divine champagne poppers. After I recieved that fifth "special" item, my remaining summons (something like 30) were all cans of silly sting, noisemakers, and blowouts. Seems to me that there is a hard limit of 5 "special" items, and the rest will just be those normal 3. Anyone managed to summon more than five popper/cracker/flutes? --Wildfire393 18:03, 4 January 2008 (CST)
- On the radio show, Jick in passing mentioned that while 3 of the items are rarer than the other 3, there is some additional mechanic to prevent screwage. I take that to mean that you are also guaranteed at least one of the good items if you havent gotten any after x number of summons per day. Perhaps after a certain number there is a hard cap or it may just be left up to the RNG. Anyway, I'd also like to know how many summons someone has gone without getting a good item (starting from the first summon of the day). --Prestige 07:27, 5 January 2008 (CST)
- I got two flutes rather quickly two days in a row, but have not been able to generate any more than that, and like Wild, as it went along it seemed to be limited to only the less "useful" items. --Glukthar 11:28, 5 January 2008 (CST)
- I just summoned my sixth special of the day (from 32). Both today and yesterday my first two summons were flutes. —Yendor 14:05, 5 January 2008 (CST)
- I got only 4 today. My thought is that perhaps there is a set random number each day (probably 4-6), and you will only be able to get that many "special" summons per day. It looks like, while they are available, they are at least as likely as the regular ones. I think 3 out of my first five summons were Champagne Flutes, and then like my 8th or 9th was a Popper, and that was it. If no one can find an objection to this, I'm going to post it as the theory on the main page for this. --Wildfire393 15:04, 5 January 2008 (CST)
- Day 1: 14 blowouts, 11 silly string, 11 noisemakers, 3 champagne flutes, 2 champagne poppers, 1 cracker
- Rares on turns: 1, 3, 4, 14, 26, 41. 42 summons total.
- Day 2: 14 noisemakers, 14 silly string, 10 blowouts, 3 champagne flutes, 1 champagne popper, 0 crackers
- Rares on turns: 3, 5, 21, 30, 38. 42 summons total.
- Rares seem to be very common in the first 5 turns, and rare afterwards. 50% likely in the first 5 turns, 8% in the following 37 turns each day. I'm not seeing any sign of a counter.--QuantumNightmare 15:16, 5 January 2008 (CST)
- I haven't seen this "8% Likely". I've summoned dozens upon dozens of favors after the initial few (which are mostly "rares"), and after getting 5 on the first day (in a minimal amount of summons) and 4 on the second day (in a similarly minimal amount of summons), all of the rest were regular. I've seen 30 non-specials in a row, at least. --Wildfire393 21:22, 5 January 2008 (CST)
- See my day 1, where my 41st out of 42 summons was a rare. That was my 6th rare summon of the day, and until that point I had summoned 35 common and 5 rare party favours. So clearly, your idea that rares occur just as often as commons until some magic number have been summoned is incorrect. A percentage system that is skewed towards rares in the first few summons seems much more likely.--QuantumNightmare 22:00, 5 January 2008 (CST)
- If you've seen it, I'll take back my theory. I just haven't seen it yet, and the distribution led me to believe it was a certain limit (it kind of reminded me of something like the Mayflower Bouquet flower drops or the Absynthe drops, where they had a decent % chance of happening until a certain amount were used up, then it would stop coming). --Wildfire393 22:18, 5 January 2008 (CST)
OK, new theory: the chance of summoning an "uncommon" follows an asymptotic distribution (i.e. a 1/X chance, where X is the number of favors summoned, but probably a little more complex than that). This would explain why they are practically guaranteed in the first couple of summons, but I've never seen one after the first dozen or so. --Wildfire393 10:34, 9 January 2008 (CST)
Some odd results today, I got rares on summons 2, 12, 14, 17 out of 26 summons--Manial 02:55, 16 January 2008 (CST)
Zap testing
Once all are confirmed as non-zappable we can add it to this article.
- Divine noisemaker, not zappable.ColtsScore 11:35, 5 January 2008 (CST)
- Divine blowout, not zappable.ColtsScore 11:37, 5 January 2008 (CST)
MP Reset Conditions
It appears that if you keep summoning, and the MP cost keeps going up, you can send an item, or items, to another player (other than yourself) and the MP cost is reset to 1. I am not sure if this is intended, or if there are other things that cause it, but I've tested this twice, and sure enough -- get my cost up to, say 90 MP or so, send an item to another player, go back to Summon and the cost is once again 1 MP.--Teedz 23:53, 5 January 2008 (CST)
Drop Rates
It seems that the drop rates are equal within both groups. (My data confirms this.) Thus I'll concentrate of the likelihood of uncommons.
First the data (including data by QuantumNightmare and Manial posted above):
| day | # commons | # uncommons | uncommons in casts # |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 13 | 3 | 2,8,9 |
| 2 | 34 | 5 | 1,3,8,11,26 |
| 3 | 34 | 5 | 1,4,16,22,25 |
| 4 | 35 | 4 | 1,4,11,37 |
| 5 | 35 | 5 | 1,3,11,21,29 |
| 6 | 34 | 6 | 1,2,6,8,11,35 |
| 7 | 36 | 4 | 1,3,5,7 |
| 8 | 36 | 4 | 2,10,15,34 |
| 9 | 36 | 4 | 1,5,7,18 |
| 10 | 36 | 4 | 2,3,4,19 |
| 11 | 36 | 4 | 4,18,23,40 |
| 12 | 35 | 6 | 1,2,4,26,29,32 |
| 13 | 37 | 5 | 3,4,6,16,22 |
| 14 | 37 | 5 | 1,3,9,14,39 |
| 15 | 37 | 5 | 8,10,11,15,32 |
| 16 | 37 | 5 | 2,5,6,13,29 |
| 17 | 38 | 4 | 1,6,8,34 |
| 18 | 38 | 4 | 1,2,7,15 |
| 19 | 36 | 6 | 2,4,5,21,28,29 |
| 20 | 38 | 5 | 2,4,7,11,20 |
| 21 | 38 | 5 | 4,8,12,18,35 |
| 22 | 38 | 5 | 2,4,7,8,23 |
| 23 | 36 | 7 | 3,5,9,24,30,32,38 |
| 24 | 39 | 4 | 1,3,6,18 |
| 25 | 39 | 4 | 1,19,23,43 |
| 26 | 40 | 4 | 1,8,9,10 |
| 27 | 38 | 5 | 1,15,16,27,31 |
| 28 | 37 | 6 | 1,8,11,19,26,28 |
| 29 | 38 | 5 | 1,5,7,11,28 |
| 30 | 32 | 6 | 1,6,17,19,35,37 |
| 31 | 40 | 4 | 3,9,15,22 |
| 32 | 39 | 5 | 3,4,21,25,41 |
| 33 | 39 | 5 | 2,5,7,8,12 |
| 34 | 40 | 4 | 3,5,22,40 |
| 35 | 40 | 4 | 1,7,13,25 |
| QN 1 | 36 | 6 | 1, 3, 4, 14, 26, 41 |
| QN 2 | 37 | 5 | 3, 5, 21, 30, 38 |
| M 1 | 22 | 4 | 2, 12, 14, 17 |
This looks to me like the probability of getting an uncommon favor depends on the number of uncommons summoned that day rather than the total number of summonings. If this is the case, the average number of turns between uncommons n-1 and n should approach 1/p_n where p_n is the probability of getting the n-th uncommon.
| n | # tries (successful) | avg | 1/avg | # tries (unsuccessful (end of day))+1 | avg w/ unsuccessful | 1/avg |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 4, 1, 3, 1, 8, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 2, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 3, 2, 3, 1, 1, 3, 2 | 1.89 | 0.53 | |||
| 2 | 6, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, 2, 8, 4, 1, 14, 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 5, 1, 2, 2, 4, 2, 2, 2, 18, 7, 14, 7, 4, 5, 6, 1, 3, 2, 6, 2, 2, 10 | 4.29 | 0.23 | |||
| 3 | 1, 5, 12, 7, 8, 4, 2, 5, 2, 1, 5, 2, 2, 6, 1, 1, 2, 5, 1, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, 1, 1, 3, 2, 11, 6, 17, 2, 17, 6, 1, 16, 2 | 4.68 | 0.21 | |||
| 4 | 3, 6, 26, 10, 2, 2, 19, 11, 15, 17, 22, 10, 5, 4, 7, 26, 8, 16, 4, 6, 1, 15, 12, 20, 1, 11, 8, 4, 2, 7, 4, 1, 18, 12, 10, 9, 3 | 9.65 | 0.10 | 7 | 9.58 | 0.10 |
| 5 | 15, 3, 8, 24, 3, 6, 25, 17, 16, 7, 9, 17, 15, 6, 4, 7, 17, 16, 16, 4, 12, 8 | 11.60 | 0.086 | 3, 34, 7, 23, 22, 1, 9, 28, 25, 1, 35, 23, 5, 20 | 13.27 | 0.075 |
| 6 | 3, 34, 7, 23, 22, 1, 9, 28, 25, 1, 35, 23, 5, 20 | 7 | 0.14 | 14, 15, 12, 21, 4, 11, 14, 24, 9, 21, 12, 16, 4, 33, 5 | 12 | 0.083 |
So here's my guess: p_n = 1/ (1+\sum_{i=1}^n i) leading to the sequence 2,4,7,10,14,19. The error at n=6 can easily be explained by the fact that long waits tend to be cut off. Thus 3 is the only point I'm worried about. --O 3 141592 09:42, 22 February 2008 (CST)
No hard 6 rare limit
Most of the time I get 6 or fewer divine summons in a day, when summoning 40-70 overall. I got 8 today though so it appears six is not a hard limit.--Fxer 19:30, 12 January 2012 (CET)
