Talk:A Couch Next To A Jar

From A KoL Wiki

Can we call them legendary swords? Or epic. seems more fitting with the games vocabulary than special. Discordance 22:43, 6 January 2013 (CET)

  • I just labeled them special since KoL has no quality ratings on equipment and I didn't want to use confusing terms, but if the community already(?) uses that, go ahead. I'd rather have them called epic, though because there simply is no legend about even one of these swords. They couldn't be legendary if there isn't a single legend about them, right? (I know Blizzard likes to use this term on WoW-weapons that are ultra-hard to get, but it doesn't fit here.) --Yatsufusa 01:05, 7 January 2013 (CET)
    • The games uses "Such a unique artifact can not be recreated." (when you try to make a second of the craftable ones). So perhaps unique swords? Discordance 01:34, 7 January 2013 (CET)
      • Sounds fitting enough. I'll change it and explain what makes them unique, while I'm at it. --Yatsufusa 01:56, 7 January 2013 (CET)
        • I really want it to be "sweet swords." --Algernon Mabus 15:02, 7 January 2013 (CET)
          • When I first added them here I thought about that one as well, but in KoL terms, I only encountered the term sweet swords in combination with skeletons so it seemed unfitting for everything but the Sword of Procedural Generation (Jick's sword). --Yatsufusa 21:07, 7 January 2013 (CET)
            • legendary does work, allow me to quote from the swords we have found This is Meatcleaver, the legendary Sword from the Steak this is the legendary Truthsayer This legendary seaman's cutlass as for the other two Forged in the molten depths of Mt. Algorithm, commissioned by Emperor Emergent the Random but Deterministic is fairly legendary sounding and one of the Nine Swords of the Emperor suggests there is a legend, that is just my two cents on the subject. --Ganomex 21:40, 7 January 2013 (CET)
              • Also on a personal note to Yatsufusa the legendary items in WoW all have back story to them and what is a legend if not a back story?--Ganomex 21:50, 7 January 2013 (CET)
                • I have played a WoW-Warlock for a long time and the only occasion I would read something about Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros was from Warriors explaining how you get it. It's pretty "epic" that Ragnaros uses it, but my standards for legendary are higher. Pretty much the same for Atiesh, Greatstaff of the Guardian, Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker and Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury. The Twin Blades of Azzinoth get a may be legendary from me, because they are pretty unique in itself and you kind of recognize them without a second thought (and would have even before the Burning Crusade extension came out). A WoW weapon I would clearly count as legendary would be the Ashbringer which you hear of over and over again. Ironically, that weapon never ever drops, except as Corrupted Ashbringer, which is only deemed epic. That it what I remember from WoW's legendary weapons. --Yatsufusa 22:34, 7 January 2013 (CET)
              • It only says legendary in the item descriptions. Other than the item itself and maybe the adventure where you acquire it, there's no place or NPC where you could read up on the history, background or former owners of the swords. When I first labeled them special all I intended was to make it clear to the average wiki user that these sword's aren't your regular everyday normal swords but something special. I think we can all agree that it doesn't matter much how we actually label them, as long as it makes any sense and increases understandability. Unique does that for me, since you can only ever own one per player. Legendary would always raise question like "What Legend?", "Where can I read cool KoL Legends?" and of course "How is this legendary if there's no Legend?" --Yatsufusa 22:34, 7 January 2013 (CET)

do the jar areas reset as well as disappear at rollover, or only on ascension? that is, if i beat The Beefhemoth today, can i fight him again tomorrow? and can i take two days to beat The Tower of Procedurally-Generated Skeletons? --Evilkolbot 00:01, 7 January 2013 (CET)

On a similiarish thread some jars can be removed, letting you do more than 1 jar in a day. SLGs when you chase the dragon out of chinatown (heh), and the captains i think just removes itself when you are done. The others so far don't seem to want to budge until rollover, seems weird that two of them can do this but the others can't. Potentially you can do 3 jars in a day if you do SLG, captain, and then a third. Discordance 01:40, 7 January 2013 (CET)
I should probably try doing captain's all day at some point, his is fairly short and quite possibly infinitely repeatable/chainable? Unless it doesn't reset. Discordance 01:44, 7 January 2013 (CET)

Theres also space in the item db for 3 more jars. Unless a dev has confirmed there are no others somewhere, or at least no others ready? The needs content banner should probably also be asking for more jars. Discordance 01:59, 7 January 2013 (CET)

  • Could be three jars, could be just one. Maybe the missing patient is someone that players encounter during the course of a regular ascension and is inaccessible later, like Dr. Awkward. (Although, diving into the mind of say... Bashy would be pretty entertaining for sure.) --Yatsufusa 02:17, 7 January 2013 (CET)

It appears removing jars has been removed. So its one per day. I just went back to crackpot mystics and it has not reset. Some of the others seem like they might. Discordance 12:56, 7 January 2013 (CET)

Area resets

So when does each area reset. Discordance 23:47, 7 January 2013 (CET)

  • Mystic - not on rollover. ascension?
  • Artist - rollover?
  • SLG - ?
  • Meatsmith - ?
  • Old Man - rollover?
  • Captain - rollover?
  • Jick - ?
  • Mystic and SLG are possibly ascension. Jick is once per character. The rest are on rollover.--Toffile 23:50, 7 January 2013 (CET)
    • Jick is once per ever? That would really suck. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 00:59, 8 January 2013 (CET)
      • Indeed it would. I even suspect the worst case for collectors: All swords could only be craftable once per database flag, with no Hagnk's workaround — like the soul monocle. --Yatsufusa 03:00, 8 January 2013 (CET)
  • I can verify that Mystic resets with Ascension. --Andyzero 05:44, 8 January 2013 (CET)

Page currently suggests Meatsmith resets at rollover. That suggests a new Golden Meat Stack strategy to me. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 08:03, 8 January 2013 (CET)

i can confirm thst the old man can be done again another day if you finish it, wait a rollover, then use another jar. whether it resets is a different question. having read the jickshow transcript on the forums i got this.

  1. jick is once per character but does not have to be done in a single day, or even ascension.
  2. artist resets at rollover so if you don't finish it you can start again with a new jar.
  3. old man does not reset at rollover but can be done over more than one day and more than once per ascension.

i get the feeling that these are very much works in progress. anything that is unfair will get nerfed.

also cdm (chris?) seems to have misunderstood jick's intention that jars should be one per.day. this is why the SLG went away. it is implied that this is fixed. --Evilkolbot 09:54, 8 January 2013 (CET)

  • I have only read this mini transcript so far, since I didn't have time for the actual radio show yet. After reading it I wasn't under the impression that jick's jar is once per character — after all they like to spread their content. I'd rather expect one per character, so you can't get one if you already have one (as an additional restriction to the currently unknown ones). --Yatsufusa 11:34, 8 January 2013 (CET)
    • i read the opposite, that it's climbing the tower that's once only. monumentally unfair to exclude people from getting two. the "get one per character" theory is rather undermined, though, by the fact they are tradeable. and if there's one thing jick's for, it's free trade and a fair price. effectively limiting the number of jars in this way would only encourage multi-abuse.
    • there is discussion further down that thread about how since this isn't reset by ascension it would be remarkably stunty to line up ten or so of the final skeletons for a new ascender. there are several comments about how this isn't gamebreaking since you could only do it once, so my interpretation isn't that unusual. speculation aside, we need someone who's got a sword to ascend and use another jickjar, see what happens. any takers? --Evilkolbot 14:37, 8 January 2013 (CET)
      • Wait, I think I know what happened here: When you wrote "jick is once per character" you were referring to the Tower of Procedurally-Generated Skeletons, while I thought you were talking about the jar of psychoses (Jick)... --Yatsufusa 03:39, 9 January 2013 (CET)
      • And yes: Limiting those swords to one per character is pretty unsexy. I can kind of understand they do that for the 1 handed swords, but for 2 handed swords... How could players possible get an unfair advantage from having more than one of those? --Yatsufusa 03:39, 9 January 2013 (CET)

Is there any way to arrange this table (that appears on all the psychosis pages) in terms of average ML? Would be helpful for considering using these things in-run... -- acm, 11:11, 10 January 2013 (EST)

  • Sure, it is possible, but I don't know if that's fully spaded, and we do not have a precedent for that sort of thing. What we do have precedent for is creating a page to outline strategies. A link to the strategy page in the footer template would not be out of line. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 19:44, 10 January 2013 (CET)

summary

  • i always need a handy summary. please feel free to correct any mistakes.
    • Reset: if you do not finish it, does it start over?
    • Restart: if you finish it, when can you do another? --Evilkolbot 15:39, 12 January 2013 (CET)
Jar Reset Restart Notes
Jick No No Once is your lot
Old Man No Rollover
Mystic No Ascending
Captain No Rollover
SLG No Ascending
Meatsmith No Rollover
Artist Rollover Rollover

The reset condition for the Crackpot Mystic's jar was changed from Ascension to Pixel Pill in concert with the update for the jar completion unlocking new crafts. Does ascension no longer reset the jar? Or is it pixel pill will reset within a run, and ascension ALSO resets the jar? If it's the latter, the table should say "or Ascension", rather than removing it. --Xande 03:25, 15 January 2013 (CET)

trivial update 26/1

"A new trivial update has been posted: You can now use more than one psychoanalytic jar per day. This does not apply to jars used on extra-crazy people."

So does this apply to creating jars from empties. Or back to removing jars and doing say the artist and the captain in a day? Discordance 03:17, 26 January 2013 (CET)

  • The way I read it is creating jars from empties. Otherwise the empties build up uselessly. And it sounds like still one Jick Jar a day. I'm not in a position to test right now. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 06:25, 26 January 2013 (CET)

Approximate Time to Complete

Besides the reset info, I think it would be good to have the approximate number of adventures to complete each zone. It would be useful for aftercore turn management: "Okay, freed the king, 60 adv left. What do do?" Assuming a player focused on finishing each, not item farming the zones, and not screwing up, this is my first stab at such a list:

The Captain of the Gourd's Psychoses
Exactly 19 Adventures
The Crackpot Mystic's Psychoses
About 80 Adventures
Jick's Obsessions
Exactly 374 Adventures
The Meatsmith's Brainspace
Exactly 26 Adventures
The Old Man's Past
Usually 51 Adventures, can be reduced with a non-combat choice
The Pretentious Artist's Obsession
About 20 Adventures, minimum 5
The Suspicious-Looking Guy's Shady Past
About 80 Adventures, speed up with +item drop

--Club (#66669) (Talk) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://wiki.kingdomofloathing.com/index.php?title=Talk:A_Couch_Next_To_A_Jar&oldid=440846"