Talk:Plinth/archive

Nucleon's Theorem

Good news and bad news for everyone. The good news is that I believe I've figured out what exactly the plinth is supposed to do and if I'm right it is connected to the undiscovered content. The bad news is that if I'm correct the plinth is the "something obvious" that was referred to in the radio show and I'm not going to tell what the rest might be. I WILL give you a hint in regard to what I did to make me so sure of myself: even after you find what you need in the kingdom, you'll still have to figure out how to put it together, and you won't be able to do that without leaving the Kingdom of Loathing. --Nucleon 21:17, 7 January 2008 (CST)

• --Flargen 00:42, 8 January 2008 (CST)
  • No kidding. --Drewbear 12:46, 8 January 2008 (CST)

• You think you've figured out how to unlock the new stuff, but it sounds like you haven't actually succeeded in doing so. So why not tell your theory so that we can ALL give it a shot. If you're right, you get credit and if you're wrong, we can eliminate another dead end. --Drewbear 12:46, 8 January 2008 (CST)

"you won't be able to do that without leaving the Kingdom of Loathing."...ascension? --Rincewind 21:38, 7 January 2008 (CST)

• no, no, he's talking about the shore. Clearly he thinks we should be going to the mystery island paradise what's-it, but I can't really fathom why. I've been going there a lot for the big boat trophy, but I haven't seen anything new.--Valter 20:14, 8 January 2008 (CST)

The TPTB are sadistic, but not THAT sadistic. Think outside the box.. as in outside the game. You're not going to be able to meatpaste or smith this particular puzzle together. Everything you need is already available if you know where to look.--Nucleon 21:50, 7 January 2008 (CST)

• I can't tell you how much this concept annoys me. It's been tried in other online games (finding info for an in-game puzzle by doing a Google search) to the frustration of many players. IMHO, a game's content should be self-contained.[/rant]--Spleenmaster 10:06, 8 January 2008 (CST)

• Obviously there are frequent in-game references to other games and pop culture outside of KoL, but to date there has not been a single thing that REQUIRES you to go outside the game to complete it. Even the ocean is mappable by a single person, given enough time. So, unless you can provide explicit documentation supporting your "going outside the game" statement, I doubt that your theory will hold any water. --Drewbear 12:46, 8 January 2008 (CST)
  • Pop culture references are used in a plethora of games nowadays; I see it more as a knowing wink to the player about his "real" existence outside the game, instead of continually selling the game world to the player as being real. It's the idea of having to use our "real" world to solve game puzzles that I dislike.--Spleenmaster 13:05, 8 January 2008 (CST)
    • Actually, this mechanic has been used here before. B-A-N-A-N-A-S--Altmin 13:58, 8 January 2008 (CST)
      • Actually, just knowing this reference would keep you from having to search Google for the answer. I'm sure there were plenty of players who recognized the lyrics to a popular Gwen Stefani song. In any case, that puzzle also irritated me (for the record).--Spleenmaster 14:23, 8 January 2008 (CST)
      • I had to use the Wiki for that one -- there's no way I'd have gotten it in a million years. It's my choice for worst puzzle in Loathing, the runner-up being the Desktop Globe. (Even knowing the song the latter referred to I never thought of using that item on it. It doesn't even fit the lyrics.) Joking references to the "real" world are funny; trivia questions are unfair, especially when it's not clear they ARE trivia questions.--YunaTwilight 13:35, 9 January 2008 (CST)
      • Also using "outside the game" knowledge, and not a new thing: the digital key at the Perplexing Door. There are ten "button pushes" with six choices for each. That's exactly a million possibilities. Not fun to brute force. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 13:55, 9 January 2008 (CST)
        • Actually that's 60466176 (or 6^10) choices, as for every one of six choices for button one, there's 6 for button 2, so 36 in total, then 6 for button 3 for each of those, and so on. Sorry - pedant I know, but meh. JimGamma 1017 (GMT), 10 January 2008

The Three Prophecies (One Explanation and Two Clues)

My comment here on the wiki about having discovered something important seems to have produced quite a few responses, including one or two people implying that I'm an asshat. Guilty as charged, but not because I was yanking your chains... far from it. As stated, I'm going to give one explanation and two clues in the form of prophecies. I will translate the explanation, but you guys will still have to figure out the clues yourselves. Don't worry, these clues are a lot better than the ones I gave before. The problem with those clues is that I ended up giving them seperately, which lead a lot of you off in the wrong direction. The TPTB were extremely sneaky with this to begin with, and I'm sorry to have made even more difficult. However if you solve my clues, you'll understand why I was so vague to begin with.

The prophecy that may or may not come to pass (explanation prophecy)

A message from the heavens swears the seeker to secrecy, but those not meant to hear any of it pass part of it on in the place where all meet. The power that be wipe what has been passed on from collective memory, leaving only shadows in the mind of one soul and seals the mouths of those who heard what they should have not.

Translation: My mind could be just playing tricks on me, but I seemed to recall a topic on the KOL forums refering to the very thing I discovered a while back. In it somebody wrote that the person who first figured it out was contacted by TPTB and sworn to secrecy. However, I also seem to recall that somebody else also figured it out shortly thereafter and divulged part what TPTB wanted kept secret flat-out. It should come as no surprise is that the next thing I remember is the complete disappearence of that topic, and I am been unable to find another topic to confirm or deny my recollection.

The Prophecy Of The Dead (First clue)

Spirits of the dead scream their secrets from earthen graves, but the blackness of death traps their screams in stone and time reduces their screams to whispers. Other spirits scream the same secrets from watery graves, but the same curse that consigned them to the deep tears those screams apart and freezes the pieces solid, and those pieces are then scattered throughout their tomb. To hear the first secret and silence the spirits of the dead, one must gather the screams of those consigned to the deep and combine them with the whispers trapped in stone, keeping in mind that they cannot be physically combined back into their original form by any method available to either the living or the dead.

The Voice Of The Silent God (Second Clue)

Once worshipped by many, his voice was silenced when his worshippers were consigned to oblivion. The Silent God shall not speak his secrets unless he is offered the pieces of the secret his worshippers took to the grave. Just as the secret screamed by his worshippers cannot be combined back together by any method of the living or the dead, so will he not accept an offering of what those pieces became. The manner of the offering will determine the secret that the Silent God will speak or the aspect that he shall appear in.

Good luck and if (and hopefully when) you finally piece things together, you'll realize that TPTB would be just as pissed off at me as some of you will probably be at me if I'd just told you what I discovered flat out.--Nucleon 18:15, 9 January 2008 (CST)

I'm still really leaning towards . But whatever. I think it has to do with the cursed equipmnets, low drops, untradable, but the pieces they come from arent. And something to do with the knob shaft. But thats my 2 cents.--Creamy 19:19, 9 January 2008 (CST)

No, no, no... Didn't you read my response to another person who assumed that? You do not need to ascend to be able to solve my clues. TPTB (or least Jick and Skully) are probably laughing their heads off at all of you. They've literally pulled out all the stops on this one. As for me, I don't find it funny to have people going all over the place looking for something that may not even exist. That's right... something that may not even exist. I'll give you some more clues: prophecies often seem simple to decipher by taking them at face value, but if everybody does so then nobody is prepared for what actually comes to pass because what you ASSUME the prophecy says and what it actually MEANS turn out to be two different things. TPTB used this trick (along with another equally sneaky trick) with the secrets trapped in stone. They also implied that you do not have to spend any more time on the poop deck to unlock the content. Are they saying that because there is nothing new to be discovered that way, or is it that everything that NEEDED to be found has ALREADY been discovered? My final clue is this: you have discarded a key fragment of the puzzle multiple times because of your assumptions based on what TPTB have done in the past... the TRUE value of some things can be right in front of you and still not be seen because of its GIVEN value. --Nucleon 19:38, 9 January 2008 (CST)

I'm not buying this "not allowed to share it" story. The entire ocean is one big excercise in sharing. If not for sharing, there would be no mapping effort (unless someone spent over 600,000 turns to get the sailing adventure enough times to map it all themselves). If not for player cooperation, there'd be no plinth, since that was only unlocked by the sharing of triangles. So I find it hard to believe that the "next step" requires you to remain silent if you find it. And if you're supposed to remain silent, what's with all of these bogus "hints"? --Wildfire393 19:51, 9 January 2008 (CST)

That's it... I've had enough. For those of you who have taken me seriously and have tried to figure out what I've been saying, I thank you. As to those of you who have been SLANDERING me, you just ruined the chance of those other people of figuring out something very exciting using their own brains. What I have been refering to is NOT a new area. As stated above for all I know TPTB are yanking the chains of everybody in the Kingdom and there is no undiscovcvered area to find. What I HAVE been referring to is a puzzle that may very well have already been solved but is virtually unknown as due to the nature of the prize that was obtained (a reuseable item that cures Beaten-up) and the lengths that TPTB went to in coming up with that puzzle, the individual who found the item was sworn to secrecy and the topic that I found that information in was deleted shortly after I found it. I'm going to set it all out for you, so ready or not, HERE I GO!

The "screams trapped in stone" refers to the sinister altar fragment. That's right, the same fragment that's been dismissed time and time again because it couldn't be combined or smithing with anything and had an autosell value. Surprise, surprise, there was something more to it, namely the runes on the altar fragment. The frozen screams are the three different cursed keys; parts of their images match up with the runes on the altar fragment to depict the first secret. The "silent god" is the strange tiki idol; parts of the lines that make up its face match up with the runes on the altar fragment as well as the cursed keys; these result in depictions of several pirate faces (At the very least two faces) as well as coordinates and instructions on how to obtain the item in question. (I do not have the item in question, trust me on that.) It also shows what happened the first time a sphere was inserted into the plinth; it dropped down and rolled out through a tunnel onto the ocean floor, severing a tie that was holding the chest containing the item in place. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to send a K-mail to TPTB and let them know that this particular jig is up. --Nucleon 20:19, 9 January 2008 (CST)

• You got all that information from 5 tiny images?! I call massive, massive bullshit. Put up or shut up: give a link to this combined picture with 2 pirate faces and a map showing how the sphere rolled down a tunnel and severed a tie and coordinates to get the treasure at. Crying and saying that you're gonna take your ball home ain't gonna cut it. ("Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to send a K-mail to TPTB and let them know that this particular jig is up." Seriously. I mean, SERIOUSLY!) --Drewbear 20:37, 9 January 2008 (CST)
• For the record, I just tried and couldn't get anything - however, the altar fragment does look like it has the numbers 2, 0, 7, and 1 on it...I went there and got a normal chest, though I don't have all the keys yet and I certainly don't have a tiki idol. There's no way that the keys match up, though. The last (and only) puzzle similar to this (Tatter Imp) had huge, legible images. --Rincewind 20:44, 9 January 2008 (CST)

I don't have a tiki idol either; all you need are the images of the three different cursed keys, the tiki idol, and the altar fragment. Then you just use your eyes, head, and a simple graphic viewing program to figure out the rest.

What "jig"!?!? This entire thing was about PLAYER COOPERATION. Giving vague, indecipherable "clues" is not player cooperation, and players responding, telling you this and why is not "Slandering" you. --Wildfire393 20:31, 9 January 2008 (CST)

• Amen to that. --Drewbear 20:37, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Also, this "solution" doesn't actually work. Two of the keys are just simple line drawings, only the Ornate one has "runes", and they don't "match up" with the altar fragments or idol at all. This is a spoiler site. If you have actual information to share, great. If you want to "tease" people who come here for information with bogus clues, go somewhere else. --Wildfire393 20:40, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Sigh... every time I try to make a response, I find you guys are taking another shot at me. READ what I said CAREFULLY; I said that THE KEYS match up with the runes on the altar fragment; you'll need to rotate and flip the images first. Start with rotate the simple key image 90 degress counter clockwise so it matches with the rune on the lower left, then rotate the ornate key so the rune on it matches the corresponding rune on the altar fragment; finally rotate and flip the gilded key so it matches up with the top right rune and the rune next to the bottom left rune. I was mad when I made that "slandering" comment because you guys were implying (just like you are now) that I was making all of this up. The "jig" happens to be the fact that if my memory isn't playing tricks on me then TPTB have gone to extreme lengths to keep this secret. --Nucleon 20:53, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Nucleon, if you have revealed some great secret, I have a feeling it is now safer than it has ever been, as the set-up and reveal just seem a bit much. Presentation counts, whether you're the real deal or up to mischief, and whatever your intentions, it looks like you've blown it. --Noskilz 21:01, 9 January 2008 (CST)

At the risk of sounding stupid... well I tried combining the images described, but I saw nothing resembling faces, "coordinates" or "instructions." However, it did reveal that the Illuminati and the Priory of Sion are trying to take over the world. --Prestige 21:11, 9 January 2008 (CST)

• You got the Illuminati? Lucky. All I saw was the secret Nordstrom's chocolate chip cookie recipe. --Drewbear 21:36, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Whee. Imp arguement all over again. People who are trying to let people spade things get chewed out by those who want it all told to them. Regardless of if Nucleon is correct or not (I can see that things will match, but I don't have the imageshop ability to merge them to see what the coomposite picture looks like) Some are you are acting more the asshat than you claim Nucleon is. --Ashallond 21:28, 9 January 2008 (CST)

• An important distinction is that the Imp was specifically designed to be a single-person puzzle, to the point that there's an explicit in-puzzle request to not spoil it for other people, whereas the extended Ocean puzzle was designed for people to cooperate on it. The intent was that the playerbase would share info to solve it, as we have done so far. --Drewbear 21:36, 9 January 2008 (CST)

If I'm understanding this correctly, there was supposed to be a chest that produced an uber-item and the first person to drop in a sphere released it. So, only one prize in a zone that was set up to require three players' cooperation, and the secret is not supposed to be revealed by the person who finds it out despite massive cooperation being required to solve it? That doesn't make sense.

It would mean that all of the business with machinery operating underground was nonsense. It also doesn't jibe with what we've heard on the radio show, which was implying new content, not one item that only one person can ever get.

There's also no reason to think it would take until after Crimbo for people to line up drawings. I'm also not sure how it's supposed to work, especially considering that the gilded and simple cursed keys are virtually identical graphics and that I don't see any of these graphics lining up or producing anything when it's done.

I also don't know where these prophecies came from -- sounds like you wrote them. If so, you ARE a good writer, but it's hardly a TPTB issue if it's not game content.

Even assuming everything you've said is true, I don't think it's the solution to the puzzle any more than the rainbow pearls are. Just another uberitem for someone lucky and fast off the mark (and I'm beginning to get really tired of those).--YunaTwilight 21:42, 9 January 2008 (CST)

I tried what Nucleon suggested, editing the keys and the fragment in Photoshop, and it looks like h's got a good chance of being right. There's numbers, but I'm not sure I edited them in th same way he did.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j101/happy_coffetea/KoL-tikikeys.jpg http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j101/happy_coffetea/KoL-tikikeyscopy.jpg

The numbers seem to be 0, 2 or 5, and 8. Whether or not those work is up to someone who's got more adventures than me. --Ragwurm 21:47, 9 January 2008 (CST)

I never claimed that it makes perfect sense how TPTMBG did this. It may not even be true. My point is....many people are acting the fool here. Go back and read what was written. Attitudes like that usually don't foster a cooperative situation. --Ashallond 21:48, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Nucleon, I'm sorry, but come on? Seriously? Those images look horrible. It makes no sense. You're either severely mislead, or you are trying to mislead us. The prize? Re-useable item that cures beaten up? Well I know of a fairly easy to get cure for beaten up, its called a soft green echo eyedrop antidote. Sure not re-useable, but seriously? Is that the best fake item you can come up with? And maybe I'm jumping the gun, but this sounds horribly fake. If you KNOW ACTUAL hints, which you don't, all your horrid clues just lead to runabout ideas that basically did nothing in the end. We have no coordinates. We have no idea. We just have some bad image combinations. And lets say your clues were not just lies, that maybe you had to combine it outside of the kingdom (which by the way, was a clue given to us by YOU out of NOWHERE) But if your clues werent lies, why? Why "clue" it? Why not just try to flat out tell us? WHY on the wiki page try to encode it all up? Make us solve it? The POINT of a wiki and of a collaborative sea effort is players working together. Misleading players, writing up damn hidden clue hunts for players you are WORKING with technically, does NOT MAKE SENSE. And maybe you arent being an asshat, I can give you that. But then you just dont lead us on some treasure hunt based on small hunches you have with nothing to back it up. So I could say more but I probably already sound like a huge ass, but seriously, this whole fiasco was pointless.--Creamy 23:12, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Quoth the Riff: "Having found out from Nucleon what it was he thought the solution was, I can say that he was wildly off-base. However, I don't think he was misleading anyone intentionally, he just hit on what he thought was a really good answer, that turned out to be wrong." So much for that. --Southwest 20:57, 10 January 2008 (CST)

So all the bit about the big secret and the prophecies and being sworn to secrecy and TPTB being furious if he told anyone anything and K-mailing them to warn them he'd blown it ... ?--YunaTwilight 21:20, 10 January 2008 (CST)