Talk:Advanced Farming

Okay, I am officially taking charge of this project again :). First order of business: generate the new meat per adventure (mpa) for the castle in the sky. This is going to be VERY complicated compared to the Icy Peak considering the variety of factors. My calculations/info/requests/other things will be listed below. --SomeStranger ^(t|c) 10:10, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

NOTE: I assume that all items are autosold (keeps everything simplistic). I might take into account the value of the furry mask, but I am not sure yet. NOTE: We round all numbers to the hundreths place.

Combat Adventures - 152.12 mpa

• We can posit that the combat adventure rate is 75% since Jick likes even numbers.
• There are 6 combat adventures that can occur at any given time.

Alphabet Giant - 152.2 mpa

Furry Giant - 151.7 mpa

Goth Giant - 151.7 mpa

Possibility Giant - 152.1 mpa

Procrastination Giant - 152.3 mpa

Raver Giant - 152.7 mpa

Non-Combat Adventures - 423 mpa

• That makes Non-combat adventures 25%.
• There are four non-combat adventures which can occur at any given time.

In a Black Room, with Black Curtains - 594 mpa

thin black candle - 144 meat

Warm Subject gift certificate - 450 meat (not taking into account the first time you get the goth kid t-shirt)

What are the Odds? - 254 mpa

plot hole - 128 meat

chaos butterfly - 124 meat

The stat giving adventures are not taken into account because it assumed that it is the procrastination's giant turn to guard the back door (no stat adventures).

The Wheel is not taken into account because leaving it alone does not use an adventure.

• It is important to know that the mpa for non-combat adventures cannot be modifed by items or buffs. It is static.

Autosell value Combat Adventures items - 113.92 mpa

The following table shows the 6 giants in The Castle in the Clouds in the Sky, and the value of the items they drop, per combat adventure.

All drop rate data was taken from the The Castle in the Clouds in the Sky links, and should be verified before using this table. Note that the Warm Subject gift certificate should be used, not sold.

Monster	Item	Chance	Autosell Price/Use	Avarage gain Per fighting this giant
Alphabet Giant	heavy D	39.3	135	53.055
	original G	41.3	143	59.059
Furry Giant	disturbing fanfic	37.4	129	48.246
	furry fur	29.1	132	38.412
	wolf mask	10.5	165	17.325
Goth Giant	awful poetry journal	29	136	39.44
	thin black candle	29.2	144	42.048
	Warm Subject gift certificate	28.6	450	128.7
Possibility Giant	chaos butterfly	22.4	128	28.672
	plot hole	30.9	128	39.552
	probability potion	18.9	124	23.436
Procrastination Giant	procrastination potion	28.9	138	39.882
Raver Giant	Angry Farmer candy	30.6	137	41.922
	giant needle	29.2	141	41.172
	Mick's IcyVapoHotness Rub	28.4	150	42.6

So, the gain from autoselling combat adventure items is 113.92 mpa (a sixth of the sum of the last column).

Due to the way they work, item drop increasing effects will thus add 1.139 mpa per +1% Item-drop-rate increase.

Weapon and skill choices

When the skills are reevaluated, Double Fisted should be taken out, as the meatspout renders the dual wielding of two machetes to be inefficient. Not only does the meatspout staff give a greater +meat%, but its power is higher as well. --J12601 13:47, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

• Considering the efficiency of NPZR in Castle farming, as long as the Monster's HP are 4.95 times its weight, and based on Dbandit's posts, Musk of the Moose should be the only skill used to increase combat frequency, as both The Polka of Plenty and Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric are obvious choices (increase net meat output almost 90% of the time), and Ur-Kel's Aria of Annoyance is needed to keep the Monster HP high enough for a 50 lbs (using Amphibian Sympathy, Empathy of the Newt , Heavy Petting, Leash of Linguini, plexiglass pith helmet and rhesus monkey) NPZR (+98 ML, for a total yield of 1,025 mpa from the NPZR alone). --The Safe 10:49, 13 November 2006 (CST)

• Consider replacing the Phat Loot Lyric with Carlweather's Cantata of Confrontation, if Combat outcome is higher than 956 mpa (using a 34 lbs NPZR, or accumulating +450% meat effects), as it adds (20×1.14 =) 23 mpa to the combat adventures, and is worthwhile while:

532.72 + (Non-combat mpa) < (combat mpa)

--The Safe 06:16, 14 November 2006 (CST)

• As for equipping the monster bait, that accessory slot is better utilized even by a Lucky rabbit's foot, as the following is always true:

(combat mpa)×0.85/(1-((1-0.85)/3))×1.07 > (combat mpa)×0.9/(1-((1-0.9)/3))

--The Safe 06:16, 14 November 2006 (CST)

• As for using snowcones, that depends on their mall value. A blue snowcone would add 31 mpa (30 × 1.14 × 0.894 chance for combat), green 89.4 mpa (67 if using a Leprechaun), and red 44.7 mpa.
  So, a blue snowcone is better sold for 620 meat than used, a green snowcone for 1,789 meat, and a red snowcone for 895 meat. --The Safe 06:16, 14 November 2006 (CST)

All of this data is actually present on the main page right now, but with the wrong mpa calculated for them. Once we determine the formula we are going to use we can go ahead and convert all of the old data. (By the way we round to the hundredths place). Give it a little bit longer and then we can start on the main page.--SomeStranger ^(t|c) 16:39, 13 November 2006 (CST)

• The points I was trying to make refer to NPZR vs Leprechaun farming (in view of the need to reserve an AT buff slot for the aria of annoyane) and combat frequency enhancers - which should NOT be used.--The Safe 17:32, 13 November 2006 (CST)

• Oh...oops.--SomeStranger ^(t|c) 17:58, 13 November 2006 (CST)

Notes

If the wheel is set so that the procrastination giant guards the back door the stat giving adventure no longer occurs and so the first two non combat adventures will be the only ones to use an adventure. Based on the current meat values of the two applicable non-combat adventures the average mpa non-combat would be 423.--Dbandit 02:28, 30 October 2006 (CST)

I was looking at the Non-combat adventure percentage and i was thinking that effectively a third of the non combat adventures would come up as the wheel. This would end up not using the adventure and so assuming it was used in the castle again it could posibly turn up as a combat adventure(or not). Using the values 75% combat 25% non-combat and a 1/3 of the non-combat being the Wheel adventure, and summing to infinity for the amount of times a non-combat adventure turns up (ratio of 0.083 3dp starting number of 0.166 3dp), there would be a non-combat adventure that uses your adventure 18.18% 2dp of the time. This is assuming the wheel was set to the back door and each time you ran in to it you left it alone and then adventured at the castle again.--Dbandit 03:07, 30 October 2006 (CST)

Pulverize versus Autosell

Since the Giant Needle and the Wolf Mask both pulverize into a twinkly wad roughly 50% of the time, and 4 nuggets the rest of the time, it can be reasoned that essentially 10 of each of those items yields 9 wads. You usually get 5 wads and 20 nuggets per 10 smashed, and assuming either a) Malus access, or b) the ability to get Malus access during an upcoming run or through a clan member or friend on this run, it can then be reasoned that you will eventually get 9 wads out of those 10 items. Current wad prices (as of todays Marketplace data) is ~376 per, while the needles and masks run at ~330 each. Since 10 wads will theoretically sell for 3384, and 10 needles for 3300, smashing your needles and masks to make wads will net slightly more profit.

If you do not have Pulverize, then malling the needles and masks will still earn you more meat than autoselling them, provided you are patient enough to wait for them to sell. Masks and needles seem to move in a volume of 1-2000 per day, while twinkly wads move over 5000 units a day. The autosell for 10 giant needles is 1650, while malling them even at minimum price will likely result in them being sold.--J12601 13:15, 30 October 2006 (CST)

Meat per Adventure formula

I just spent a few hours getting this formula down. This is the formula for adventuring at the Giant Castle without any added meat or item percentages, or changing the combat frequency.

.75(m(151.82)+i(125.025))+.25(424) = 313.6

Frequency of combat adventures (meat% (average amount of meat from combat adventures) + item% (average amount of meat made from all the items)) + noncombat frequency (average noncombat meat)

The formula I used to predict the amount of meat I'd get under my circumstances is:

.8(5.34(151.82)+1.54(125.025))+.2(424) = 887.4

I adventured a hundred times under these exact conditions, resulting in getting 91244 meat, which is quite close to my prediction. I'd say the formula is pretty accurate. Comments, questions? If other people could use this formula and work out any kinks, and then use it for the new Advanced Farming page, that would be cool. --TimJing 12:34, 12 November 2006 (CST)

I think that 152.2 as the mpa for combat adventures functions slightly better than your 151.82. The rest can be blamed on chance.--SomeStranger ^(t|c) 13:04, 12 November 2006 (CST)

The combat frequency / nc frequency should be changed to take the wheel into account:

Effective Combat Frequency = Combat Frequency/(1-(1-Combat Frequency)*1/3)

This would obviously give a non-combat frequency of:

non-combat frequency = 1 - Effective Combat Frequency

This yields a number closer to the result above.--Dbandit 05:21, 13 November 2006 (CST)

• The wheel is not relevant if you turn it to procrastination giant taking out the trash and make sure to press the "leave it alone" button every time. The leave it alone button does not cost an adventure and setting it at the procrastination giant taking out the trash assures that you don't get any non combat stat adventures.--SomeStranger ^(t|c) 16:37, 13 November 2006 (CST)