Talk:Advanced Farming

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Revision as of 13:11, 22 November 2006 by imported>Worthstream (→Combat Adventures - 152.12 mpa)

Okay, I am officially taking charge of this project again :). First order of business: generate the new meat per adventure (mpa) for the castle in the sky. This is going to be VERY complicated compared to the Icy Peak considering the variety of factors. My calculations/info/requests/other things will be listed below. --SomeStranger (t|c) 10:10, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

NOTE: I assume that all items are autosold (keeps everything simplistic). I might take into account the value of the furry mask, but I am not sure yet. NOTE: We round all numbers to the hundreths place.

Combat Adventures - 152.12 mpa

  • We can posit that the combat adventure rate is 75% since Jick likes even numbers.
  • With the weel tho the right position the combat rate becomes 82.81%
  • There are 6 combat adventures that can occur at any given time.
Alphabet Giant - 152.2 mpa
Furry Giant - 151.7 mpa
Goth Giant - 151.7 mpa
Possibility Giant - 152.1 mpa
Procrastination Giant - 152.3 mpa
Raver Giant - 152.7 mpa

Non-Combat Adventures - 423 mpa

  • That makes Non-combat adventures 25%.
  • There are four non-combat adventures which can occur at any given time.
In a Black Room, with Black Curtains - 594 mpa
thin black candle - 144 meat
Warm Subject gift certificate - 450 meat (not taking into account the first time you get the goth kid t-shirt)
What are the Odds? - 254 mpa
plot hole - 128 meat
chaos butterfly - 124 meat
The stat giving adventures are not taken into account because it assumed that it is the procrastination's giant turn to guard the back door (no stat adventures).
The Wheel is not taken into account because leaving it alone does not use an adventure.
  • It is important to know that the mpa for non-combat adventures cannot be modifed by items or buffs. It is static.

Autosell value Combat Adventures items - 113.92 mpa

The following table shows the 6 giants in The Castle in the Clouds in the Sky, and the value of the items they drop, per combat adventure.

All drop rate data was taken from the The Castle in the Clouds in the Sky links, and should be verified before using this table. Note that the Warm Subject gift certificate should be used, not sold.

Monster Item Chance Autosell Price/Use Avarage gain Per fighting this giant
Alphabet Giant heavy D 39.3 135 53.055
original G 41.3 143 59.059
Furry Giant disturbing fanfic 37.4 129 48.246
furry fur 29.1 132 38.412
wolf mask 10.5 165 17.325
Goth Giant awful poetry journal 29 136 39.44
thin black candle 29.2 144 42.048
Warm Subject gift certificate 28.6 450 128.7
Possibility Giant chaos butterfly 22.4 128 28.672
plot hole 30.9 128 39.552
probability potion 18.9 124 23.436
Procrastination Giant procrastination potion 28.9 138 39.882
Raver Giant Angry Farmer candy 30.6 137 41.922
giant needle 29.2 141 41.172
Mick's IcyVapoHotness Rub 28.4 150 42.6

So, the gain from autoselling combat adventure items is 113.92 mpa (a sixth of the sum of the last column).

Due to the way they work, item drop increasing effects will thus add 1.139 mpa per +1% Item-drop-rate increase.

Weapon and skill choices

When the skills are reevaluated, Double Fisted should be taken out, as the meatspout renders the dual wielding of two machetes to be inefficient. Not only does the meatspout staff give a greater +meat%, but its power is higher as well. --J12601 13:47, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

  • Consider replacing the Phat Loot Lyric with Carlweather's Cantata of Confrontation, if Combat outcome is higher than 956 mpa (using a 34 lbs NPZR, or accumulating +450% meat effects), as it adds (20×1.14 =) 23 mpa to the combat adventures, and is worthwhile while:

532.72 + (Non-combat mpa) < (combat mpa)

--The Safe 06:16, 14 November 2006 (CST)

(combat mpa)×0.85/(1-((1-0.85)/3))×1.07 > (combat mpa)×0.9/(1-((1-0.9)/3))

--The Safe 06:16, 14 November 2006 (CST)

  • As for using snowcones, that depends on their mall value. A blue snowcone would add 31 mpa (30 × 1.14 × 0.894 chance for combat), green 89.4 mpa (67 if using a Leprechaun), and red 44.7 mpa.
    So, a blue snowcone is better sold for 620 meat than used, a green snowcone for 1,789 meat, and a red snowcone for 895 meat. --The Safe 06:16, 14 November 2006 (CST)
All of this data is actually present on the main page right now, but with the wrong mpa calculated for them. Once we determine the formula we are going to use we can go ahead and convert all of the old data. (By the way we round to the hundredths place). Give it a little bit longer and then we can start on the main page.--SomeStranger (t|c) 16:39, 13 November 2006 (CST)
  • The points I was trying to make refer to NPZR vs Leprechaun farming (in view of the need to reserve an AT buff slot for the aria of annoyane) and combat frequency enhancers - which should NOT be used.--The Safe 17:32, 13 November 2006 (CST)

Class and Zodiac sign

NPZR farming at the castle should be done with a moxie character (DB or AT), so that moxie for "no hit" is achieved by level 16 (with hair spray), even for +140 ML modifier.--The Safe 13:16, 14 November 2006 (CST)

Notes

If the wheel is set so that the procrastination giant guards the back door the stat giving adventure no longer occurs and so the first two non combat adventures will be the only ones to use an adventure. Based on the current meat values of the two applicable non-combat adventures the average mpa non-combat would be 423.--Dbandit 02:28, 30 October 2006 (CST)

I was looking at the Non-combat adventure percentage and i was thinking that effectively a third of the non combat adventures would come up as the wheel. This would end up not using the adventure and so assuming it was used in the castle again it could posibly turn up as a combat adventure(or not). Using the values 75% combat 25% non-combat and a 1/3 of the non-combat being the Wheel adventure, and summing to infinity for the amount of times a non-combat adventure turns up (ratio of 0.083 3dp starting number of 0.166 3dp), there would be a non-combat adventure that uses your adventure 18.18% 2dp of the time. This is assuming the wheel was set to the back door and each time you ran in to it you left it alone and then adventured at the castle again.--Dbandit 03:07, 30 October 2006 (CST)

Pulverize versus Autosell

Since the Giant Needle and the Wolf Mask both pulverize into a twinkly wad roughly 50% of the time, and 4 nuggets the rest of the time, it can be reasoned that essentially 10 of each of those items yields 9 wads. You usually get 5 wads and 20 nuggets per 10 smashed, and assuming either a) Malus access, or b) the ability to get Malus access during an upcoming run or through a clan member or friend on this run, it can then be reasoned that you will eventually get 9 wads out of those 10 items. Current wad prices (as of todays Marketplace data) is ~376 per, while the needles and masks run at ~330 each. Since 10 wads will theoretically sell for 3384, and 10 needles for 3300, smashing your needles and masks to make wads will net slightly more profit.

If you do not have Pulverize, then malling the needles and masks will still earn you more meat than autoselling them, provided you are patient enough to wait for them to sell. Masks and needles seem to move in a volume of 1-2000 per day, while twinkly wads move over 5000 units a day. The autosell for 10 giant needles is 1650, while malling them even at minimum price will likely result in them being sold.--J12601 13:15, 30 October 2006 (CST)

Meat per Adventure formula

I just spent a few hours getting this formula down. This is the formula for adventuring at the Giant Castle without any added meat or item percentages, or changing the combat frequency.

.75(m(151.82)+i(125.025))+.25(424) = 313.6

Frequency of combat adventures (meat% (average amount of meat from combat adventures) + item% (average amount of meat made from all the items)) + noncombat frequency (average noncombat meat)

The formula I used to predict the amount of meat I'd get under my circumstances is:

.8(5.34(151.82)+1.54(125.025))+.2(424) = 887.4

I adventured a hundred times under these exact conditions, resulting in getting 91244 meat, which is quite close to my prediction. I'd say the formula is pretty accurate. Comments, questions? If other people could use this formula and work out any kinks, and then use it for the new Advanced Farming page, that would be cool. --TimJing 12:34, 12 November 2006 (CST)

I think that 152.2 as the mpa for combat adventures functions slightly better than your 151.82. The rest can be blamed on chance.--SomeStranger (t|c) 13:04, 12 November 2006 (CST)


The combat frequency / nc frequency should be changed to take the wheel into account:

Effective Combat Frequency = Combat Frequency/(1-(1-Combat Frequency)*1/3)

This would obviously give a non-combat frequency of:

non-combat frequency = 1 - Effective Combat Frequency

This yields a number closer to the result above.--Dbandit 05:21, 13 November 2006 (CST)

  • The wheel is not relevant if you turn it to procrastination giant taking out the trash and make sure to press the "leave it alone" button every time. The leave it alone button does not cost an adventure and setting it at the procrastination giant taking out the trash assures that you don't get any non combat stat adventures.--SomeStranger (t|c) 16:37, 13 November 2006 (CST)
    • I realise that the wheel doesn't use an adventure but it is relevant in the fact that there is a chance of getting it as a non combat adventure. This means that 1/3 of the time when you should have got a non-combat adventure you actually got no adventure (the wheel adventure), this means the effective percent of combat adventures is increased from the base level.
    • i.e. 3 out of 4 times when i adventure i get a combat straight off, the other 1 of 4 times i get a non-combat. 2 out of 3 of these non-combats uses an adventure. The other 1 of 3 i leave the wheel alone and have a 3 in 4 chance of combat or a 1 in 4 chance of another non-combat (which may also turn out to be the wheel). The formula above for Effective Combat Frequency takes this into account. In 48 adventures i would get 36 combat, 8 adventure using non-combat, 3 wheel then combat, 1 wheel then non combat(which could be a wheel or a adventure using non-combat, if it is a wheel it could be combat or non-combat again). Thats atleast 39 combats out of 48 adventures, which is more than the base combat frequency of 75%.
    • I don't know how to explain it more without uploading a probability tree, which would probably be overkill.--Dbandit 06:40, 15 November 2006 (CST)
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