Talk:Zapping

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Revision as of 13:41, 9 September 2005 by imported>Pcentella (→Cool-Down: My uses, and theory.)

Standardization of Results

Now that we have enough results to have some feel for zapping, I'd like to try to settle on some standards, basically just fine-tuning what we already have. We want to have conformity with the Wiki standards, clarity, and intuitive layout. I'v gone into some detail here as there have been a number of things that have been changed, rechanged, and changed yet again and I want to establish concrete guidelines.

Categories

  • Food, Drink: Food and Drink Groups should be returned to their original catagories of Food and Drink. This conforms with existing Wiki standards.
  • Consumables: We should probably change this to Usable. Chewing Gum, Fences, Feng Shui Items, Gourd Quest Items, Oyster Eggs, and all potions should be moved out of Miscellaneous and into Usable. Again, this conforms with existing Wiki standards.
  • Ingredients: Ambiguous food/drink ingredients should probably be catagorized as Ingredients. This catagory would be for things that are not typically eaten/drunk, but are often cooked/mixed to obtain higher quality sustenance. This would include mushrooms, fruit, Skewered Fruit, beans and Shore Cocktail Items. This is something of a departure from Wiki standards, but they don't fit nicely into the food group. Currently these items are split between the Consumables and Miscellaneous groups.
  • Outfits: Outfits should probably be returned to their original designation as Outfits instead of their current Equipment catagory. Yes, they are equipment, but they are more specifically outfits, and should be segregated from the other equipment.

Sorting

  • The alpha sort splits up naturaly related groups like Substat Boosters, Burritos, DB Drinks, etc. The problematic related groups can be solved sorted together if they are more similarly named as follows: Base Name - Type. For example, Burritos - Basic, Burritos - Spicy, Burritos - Insanely Spicy.

Group Name Changes

  • 1st Gen. Mushrooms: Rename to Mushrooms - 1st Gen. as this uses sorting naming conventions.
  • 2nd Gen. Mushrooms: Rename to Mushrooms - 2nd Gen. as this uses sorting naming conventions.
  • 3rd Gen. Mushrooms: Rename to Mushrooms - 3rd Gen. as this uses sorting naming conventions.
  • Burritos: Rename to Burritos - Basic as this uses sorting naming conventions and is clearer.
  • High Tier Fruit: Rename to TPS Fruit as this sorts and groups better.
  • Insanely Spicy Burritos: Rename to Burritos - Insanely Spicy as this uses sorting naming conventions.
  • Spicy Burritos: Rename to Burritos - Spicy as this uses sorting naming conventions.
  • Tier 1 DB Drinks: Rename to Advanced Cocktailcrafting - Base Drinks as this uses sorting naming conventions and conforms with Cocktailcrafting naming conventions.
  • Tier 1 Stat Boosters: Rename to Substat Boosters - Tier 1 as this uses sorting naming conventions and is more correct.
  • Tier 1 Stir-Fries: Rename to Stir Fries - Tier 1 as this uses sorting naming conventions.
  • Tier 1 TPS Drinks: Rename to TPS - Base Drinks as this uses sorting naming conventions and conforms with Cocktailcrafting naming conventions.
  • Tier 2 DB Drinks: Rename to Advanced Cocktailcrafting - Final Drinks as this uses sorting naming conventions and conforms with Cocktailcrafting naming conventions.
  • Tier 2 Substat Boosters: Rename to Substat Boosters - Tier 2 as this uses sorting naming conventions.
  • Tier 2 Stir-Fries: Rename to Stir Fries - Tier 2 as this uses sorting naming conventions.
  • Tier 2 TPS Drinks: Rename to TPS - Final Drinks as this uses sorting naming conventions and conforms with Cocktailcrafting naming conventions.
  • Tier 3 Substat Boosters: Rename to Substat Boosters - Tier 3 as this uses sorting naming conventions.
  • Equalizer Potions: Rename to Reagent Equalizer Potions as this is clearer and sorts better.
  • Shore Cocktail Items: Rename to Advanced Cocktailcrafting Garnishes as this conforms with Cocktailcrafting naming conventions.
  • Skewered Fruit: Rename to TPS Skewered Fruit as this sorts and groups better.
  • Stat Potions: Rename to Reagent Stat Potions as this sorts better and is more correct.

Please let me hear from you if you have a different opinion or think I've missed something. Thanks. --Gymnosophist 15:38, 25 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • I've updated the main Zapping page as well as the alpha sub-pages as per above. --Gymnosophist 02:56, 28 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Untested Groups

Here's some interesting ones that haven't been tried yet, I'd try them myself, but I'm wandless.

. Basic Meat Equipment
. Dripping Meat Equipment
. Kentucky-Fried Equipment
. Baconstone Jewelry
. Hamethysr Jewelry
. Porquoise Jewelry
. eXtreme Meat Equipment
. Any Giftshop Items?
. Key Limes
. Key Lime Pies
. Ore Hilts/Sticks/Strings?
. Shroomkabobs?
. Smithing Items (Helmet Recipe, Sword Hilt)
. Hippo Skin Equipment
. Yak Skin Equipment
. Penguin Skin Equipment
. Tisket And Tasket
. Food Made From Spices (Menudo, Rat Scrapple and Bat Haggis)
. Schnapps
. Spooky Makeup (Spooky Eyeliner and Lipstick)
. Star Weapons
. White Castle Food

I know Mushroom Wines zap also, but I'm not sure if they all belong to one group.


Results 1

I confirm that the marble wand can zap Knob Goblin firecracker into razor-sharp can lid. I got 3(?) uses out of my marble wand and then it dealt 23 damage. --Atlantima 13:53, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

I used a hexagonal wand to zap 4 30669 scrolls in to 4 334 scrolls, then it broke. --JRSiebz 12:27, 20 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Rumor sez wands are a one-time-drop. This is of course wild speculation, based on too little evidence. Other rumors run that you can only get a wand if you don't have one in your inventory already. I guess combinations of wands with other DoD items or the magic lamp haven't been tried yet, there might be a trick to get more zap out of your wand.--Gorgolok 14:37, 20 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Here's a link to the KoL forum thread on this topic. Zapping seems to be cyclical, meaning for a group of items 1 => 2 => 3 => 1, where => is zapping. --JRSiebz 16:49, 20 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

That's not true. My multi zapped chorizo brownies and got herb brownies. Then he zapped more chorizo brownies and got carob brownies. Looks like it's random items of the same class, not a specific order. And a little more information: he got 4 uses from the wand, and the explosion did 28 damage. --Temporary Man 18:42, 20 Aug 2005

Might be old news, but Tiny Plastic Xs can be turned in to other Tiny Plastic Ys within the same rarity class. I don't know if the changes are cyclical or random. --Snickles 17:21, 20 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

I would assume it's completely random in the item class, as polypiling in Nethack was random. Oh, and someone needs to see if these wands have like, a cooldown period or something that will keep them from breaking if they're used less freqently --Hamelin 21:38, 20 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

It'd be pretty nice if we could get a chart going for what zaps into what else.

Boris's keyJarlsberg's keySneaky Pete's key
30669 scroll334 scroll33398 scroll
etc...


--jin 23:44, 20 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)


New rumor: Wands will cool off at rollover, which gives you 1 safe use per day. I will try and verify/falsify this.
Up to now no one seems to have been able to get a second wand within the same ascension. Should it be labelled a "presumed 1-time-drop"?--Gorgolok 09:22, 23 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)


Results 2

If you submit zapping results here, please do it in the following form:

Type of wand: ebony

  • wolf mask -> furry pants
  • murky potion -> fizzy potion

2 uses before explosion, -28 HP.--Gorgolok 10:59, 21 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)


Type of wand: aluminium

  • Boris's ring -> Jarlsberg's earring
  • Jarlsberg's earring -> Boris's ring
  • Jarlsberg's earring -> Sneaky Pete's key
  • pr0n chow mein -> bat wing chow mein
  • bat wing chow mein -> rat appendix chow mein
  • Papotion of Papower -> Arse-a`fire elixer

5 uses before explosion. --Freyagirl 12:39, 21 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

I'm not sure if it's helpful to tell what class you are as well. My multis and I have zapped the following:

  • Disco Bandit-Aluminum Wand-tiny plastic sauceror->seal clubber->accordion thief
  • Seal Clubber-Hexagonal Wand-tiny plastic hermit->turtle tamer->accordian thief
  • Sauceror-Marble Wand-tiny plastic accordion thief->seal clubber->sauceror->disco bandit
  • Disco Bandit-Aluminum Wand-tiny plastic disco bandit->bitchin' meat car
  • (I tried again)...tiny plastic disco bandit->hermit

Turtle Tamer-Aluminum Wand-tiny plastic turtle tamer->sauceror


Type of wand: hexagonal wand

And then it exploded on me. --Bigevildan 14:17, 21 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Assuming it's random, how about something like this?

Zapping Combos

Keys

Jarlsberg's key Boris's key Sneaky Pete's key


Hermit Trading Items

worthless knick-knack worthless gewgaw worthless trinket

Or something a bit more cleaned up, that could be used on individual pages as well as some central zapping list page. --Hamelin 19:24, 21 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)


This seems like a great idea. The only suggestion I can make is that each of those tables somehow include a link to the master zapping list, as it's purpose may not be obvious to the casual observer. --Bigevildan 21:44, 21 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)


I'm almost certain that it is a group system, and when you zap something you get any other random item from that group (apart from in groups of just two items, when you always get the other item)
Using the results posted on the forums, I've gathered the following groups:
Consumables

  • chow meins (tofu, pr0n, knob sausage, bat wing, rat appendix)
  • high tier fruit (cherry, lime,jumbo olive)
  • base booze (gin, whisky, vodka, rum, tequila, boxed wine)
  • evil food (4 items)
  • insanely spicy burritos (bean, enchanted bean, jumping bean)
  • presumably burritos and spicy burritos also
  • TPS drinks (6 items)
  • reagent-noodle dishes (4 items)
  • cookies (white chocolate chip, carob chunk, trollhouse)
  • brownies (herb, carob, chorizo)
  • spleen items, presumably 3 groups of 3 items
  • mushrooms (spooky, knob, knoll)
  • 3rd gen mushrooms (flaming, stinky, frozen)
  • presumably 2nd gen mushrooms also (cool, warm, flat)

Equipment

Misc

The following I'm not sure about:

  • reagent potions? (probably not a group but maybe)
  • ice cold beer -> ice cold fotie works, but is there more to the group? Imp ale?
  • catgut -> batgut, but what about ratgut, rat appendix, bat wing?


Please feel free to edit or add to this as you choose, I'm sure there's a lot more that could be done in the way of establishing zap groups, and formatting. Apologies for the incomplete linkage, abbreviations used, and general awkwardness. Tables are nice, but become a problem when you have very large groups, such as the oyster eggs or sewer items. If anyone can think of a better way to present this, that would be fantastic. I hope this has been useful! --Freyagirl 09:40, 22 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • Freyagirl, Great job with this! I've totally stolen your work (and others as well) and made a ridiculously long (ie, more than eleven) zap list. --Gymnosophist 16:01, 22 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Do we really need the quantity column when every item in each section is listed? - Firestorm ZERO

  • It helps people quickly calculate the odds of zap results. For example, since there are 8 members of the Tiny Plastic Uncommons group, you would have a 1 in 7 chance of getting, say, a tiny plastic bitchin' meat car. It's a lot easier than having to manually count everything. --Gymnosophist 18:04, 27 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Can the fontsize or something be reduced then? It just looks messy with -'s and random words spewn across various lines - Firestorm ZERO, Happy Birthday Me!

Cool-Down

Has there been any conformation on that rumour about wands cooling down at rollover? I'm sure if it's true than one would get the same level heat message when you use it again on the next day. --Hamelin 10:04, 23 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

I dunno about cooldown, but I went from the 2nd message (gets really hot. You should probably be careful) yesterday, back to #1 (warm) today. However, I then proceeded from Warm to BOOOM in one use. --Famine 09:24, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

I have confirmed that if I use my hexagonal wand once per day, the messages reset one level. More to the point, I used the wand once, I was told that it was warm, and then I didn't use it again until rollover. After rollover, I used the wand once, and I was told that it was warm. THEORY: The wand gets a random number from 1 to 3 of "heat" per use, and cools down one heat level per rollover. If the wand ever hits four or more heat levels, it explodes. --Cyferpunk 09:41, 07 Sep 2005 (Eastern Daylight Time)

Another day, another successful use of wand and "warm" message. I propose that we get confirmation that somebody can get the "warm" message after two or three days (as appropriate) from a hotter message. More to the point, let's confirm that the wand will never explode if you only use it once per day after allowing it to cool all the way down. --Cyferpunk 13:56, 07 Sep 2005 (Eastern Daylight Time)

In the Jick show on Sep 8 he did confirm that one zap per day will not cause it to go boom. Thus, I suspect that Cyferpunk's theory is correct. --Shagie 22:36, 8 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

I've used my aluminium wand nine times in my last HC ascension. I always used it once, and wait for rollover to use it again. I always got the "The aluminum wand feels a little warm." message, so I believe you always get this on your first use of the day, and get 1-4 heat points on your next uses in that day, and it gets completely cold at rollover. --Pcentella 08:41, 9 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

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