Talk:Calculating Spell Damage
How high has the damage cap on Weapon been probed, to conclude there is none? --Starwed 08:20, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
- (Found that it's been checked up to at least +109.) --Starwed 08:40, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
Elemental +bonus
It is speculated that elemental is not multiplied by percentage spell damage, however, this is incorrect. I'm currently in The Themthar Hills, and they're not elemental, however:
You call forth an eXtreme Ray of Perversion, dealing 262 damage to your opponent.
My gear:
- Staff of the Greasetap
- Kickback cookbook
- navel ring of navel gazing
Effects:
- Aspect of the twinkle fairy
Rest has no spell damage (Frat Warrior Fatigues outfit, Yak anorak and solid baconstone ring). Using the formula given, we come to:
(1 + (150+100)/100) * (16 + 15 + 25) + 20 = 3.5 * 56 + 20 = 216 as max spell damage.
Now let's put the elemental bonus in within the raw spell damage:
(1 + (150+100)/100) * (16 + 15 + 25 + 20) = 3.5 * 76 = 266 as max spell damage.
(1 + (150+100)/100) * (8 + 15 + 25 + 20) = 3.5 * 68 = 238 as min spell damage.
Test run: 248, 248, 265, 262, 244, 262, 265, 265, 269, 269
I guess the 269's are roundings, but it definitely means elemental spell damage is part of the raw spell damage and is multiplied. --MoreCurious 07:37, 21 September 2007 (CDT)
- This appears to be the case, then. Just as a data point, what class were you?--Starwed 16:22, 21 September 2007 (CDT)
- Pastamancer, level 12 at the time (#1211855) --MoreCurious 07:21, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
Would you mind doing the same tests with minor ray? I've been experimenting and found that it doesn't seem to multiply the elemental, e.g. with myst of 157, two gaia beads, cookbook of the damned, a voodoo mask, ankh and grease fire I am getting damage in the range of 73-81 not the 86+ (1.6*(3+11+20+20)) suggested by multiplying elemental.
My tests with extreme and cone agree with your assessment otherwise, so I'm going to edit the page, to reflect this data.
--Shoveller 09:27, 28 September 2007 (CDT)
It seems that this has been fixed, bonus elemental damage is no longer multiplied.
As a level 17 Pastamancer with 265 Myst, with a Staff of the Walk-In Freezer and a kickback cookbook equipped, and Spirit of Peppermint active, I expected to get the following damage with the eXtreme Ray:
2.5*(8+20+30+20) = 195 min,
2.5*(16+20+30+20) = 215 max.
However, in 10 adventures in the Dire Warren I got:
185, 165, 173, 173, 173, 185, 170, 175, 170, 180
This data fits perfectly with the damage you'd get without multiplying the elemental damage:
2.5*(8+20+30)+20 = 165 min,
2.5*(16+20+30)+20 = 185 max.
I made similar tests with Minor Ray, Cone of Whatever and Fearful Fettucini, all of them behave the same way.
I also did a test run with Spirit of Cayenne and the eXtreme Ray to verify that the bonus Myst damage cap is 20 instead of 15.
--Missim 07:19, 11 October 2007 (CDT)
Further to the comments above, I did some testing with all the Pastamancer spells today. It seems that elemental bonuses are not multiplied for any of the spells now. I had some BM passives: Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, Pride (the net result of which should be only +10 generic spell damage from Wrath).
Outfit 1: plexiglass pith helmet, Grateful Undead T-shirt, Staff of the Kitchen Floor, Cookbook of the Damned, plexiglass pants, navel ring of navel gazing, Mr. Accessory Jr., Mr. Accessory Jr., Cocoabo w/ plastic pumpkin bucket. The net result, with Wrath, should be +20 generic, +20 stench, +250%, always casting stench spells; adventuring in The Orcish Frat House (Bombed Back to the Stone Age) for no elemental sensitivities.
The expected damage is either
3.5*(RandomComponent + MystBonus + Generic + Elemental)
or
3.5*(RandomComponent + MystBonus + Generic) + Elemental
| Spell | Random Component | Myst | Generic | Elt | Expectation x Elt. | Expectation not x Elt. | Observed |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Minor Ray of Something | 3 (low) | 15 | 20 | 20 | 203 | 153 | 153 |
| Minor Ray of Something | 8 (high) | 15 | 20 | 20 | 220.5 | 170.5 | 171 |
| eXtreme Ray of Something | 8 (low) | 20 | 20 | 20 | 238 | 188 | 188 |
| eXtreme Ray of Something | 16 (high) | 20 | 20 | 20 | 266 | 216 | 216 |
| Cone of Whatever | 16 (low) | 30 | 20 | 20 | 301 | 251 | 251 |
| Cone of Whatever | 40 (high) | 30 | 20 | 20 | 385 | 335 | 335 |
| Weapon of the Pastalord | 32 (low) | 85 (245 Myst) | 20 | 0 (non-elemental spell) | 479.5 | 479.5 | 480 |
| Weapon of the Pastalord | 64 (high) | 85 (245 Myst) | 20 | 0 (non-elemental spell) | 591.5 | 591.5 | 585 |
I got similar results for Fettucini, but won't bother listing them. Interestingly, elemental forms don't seem to convert elemental bonus spell damage (this is completely different from bonus elemental melee damage, which does get converted to xforms).
Outfit 2: plexiglass pith helmet, Grateful Undead T-shirt, Staff of the Kitchen Floor, Cookbook of the Damned, plexiglass pants, navel ring of navel gazing, Choker of the Ultragoth, Mr. Accessory Jr., Cocoabo w/ plastic pumpkin bucket. The net result, with Wrath and Stenchform, should be +20 generic, +20 stench, +40 spooky +250%, always casting stench spells; adventuring in The Junkyard (Post-War).
| Spell | Random Component | Myst | Generic | Elt | Expectation x Elt. | Expectation not x Elt. | Observed |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Minor Ray of Something | 3 (low) | 15 | 20 | 60 | 343 | 193 | 153 |
| Minor Ray of Something | 8 (high) | 15 | 20 | 60 | 360.5 | 210.5 | 171 |
| eXtreme Ray of Something | 8 (low) | 20 | 20 | 60 | 378 | 228 | 188 |
| eXtreme Ray of Something | 16 (high) | 20 | 20 | 60 | 406 | 256 | 216 |
| Cone of Whatever | 16 (low) | 30 | 20 | 60 | 441 | 291 | 255 |
| Cone of Whatever | 40 (high) | 30 | 20 | 60 | 525 | 375 | 325 |
| Weapon of the Pastalord | 32 (low) | 89 (257 Myst) | 20 | 60 | 703.5 | 553.5 | 524 |
| Weapon of the Pastalord | 64 (high) | 89 (257 Myst) | 20 | 60 | 815.5 | 665.5 | 608 |
The observed ranges are completely consistent with the previous table (except for Pastalord, which has been boosted with +20, equal to the stench-alignment bonus), even though there was +40 extra spooky damage in this one. Alas, I'm not in a position to check if the Sauceror spells have likewise had the elemental portion move out of the multiplier. --Bagatelle 23:06, 6 November 2007 (CST)
With the Pasta spells confirmed above, I ran some testing yesterday on Sauce spells and found that the elemental damage is indeed multiplied. Additionally, to clarify the Stenchform remarks for my numbers with the Pasta spells, my experience with Sauce spells is that the elemental form does not change the element of the spell, but the element of the damage of the spell. Hence +hot damage would only apply to a spell that was originally hot (via chance, Capsaicin, or whatever), not a non-hot spell that was Hotformed.
Passives for the following data: Liver of Steel, Torso Awaregness, Greed, Wrath, Envy, Pride, Sauce Contemplation, Expert Panhandling, Advanced Saucecrafting, Intrinsic Spiciness, Summon Candy Hearts, only Wrath and Spiciness of which should affect spell damage, for total +20 passive. Given that this breaks the caps for everything except Wave and Geyser, it's only meaningful for me to post results for those two.
Default equipment: plexiglass pith helmet, Grateful Undead T-shirt, plexiglass pants, special sauce glove, Mr. Accessory Jr., navel ring of navel gazing (+100%).
All in the post-war Junkyard.
| Spell | Random Component | Myst | Generic | Elt | Expectation x Elt. | Observed |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wave (+Heart of Orange: 5 hot) | 20 (low) | 30 | 20 | 5 | 150 | 150 |
| Wave (+Heart of Orange: 5 hot) | 24 (high) | 30 | 20 | 5 | 158 | 158 |
| Geyser (+Gazpacho's grimoire, Kitchen floor staff: 20 stench, 10 generic, always cold) | 35 (low) | 82 | 30 | 0 | 479.5 | 480 |
| Geyser (+Gazpacho's grimoire, Kitchen floor staff: 20 stench, 10 generic, always cold) | 45 (high) | 82 | 30 | 0 | 514.5 | 515 |
| Geyser (+Capsaicin, Kitchen floor staff, Pendant of Fire, -Jr. (get myst back to 82 damage): 20 stench, 40 hot, 10 generic, always hot) | 35 (low) | 82 | 30 | 40 | 654.5 | 658 |
| Geyser (+Capsaicin, Kitchen floor staff, Pendant of Fire, -Jr. (get myst back to 82 damage): 20 stench, 40 hot, 10 generic, always hot) | 45 (high) | 82 | 30 | 40 | 689.5 | 690 |
| Geyser (+Stenchform, Kitchen) | 35 (low) | 83 | 20 (passive; note that the Kitchen +20 stench isn't applied) | 0 | 483 | 483 |
| Geyser (+Stenchform, Kitchen) | 45 (high) | 83 | 20 (passive; note that the Kitchen +20 stench isn't applied) | 0 | 518 | 518 |
With these results, I'm going to go ahead and remove the "Needs Confirmation" tag from the main article. --Bagatelle 20:51, 29 November 2007 (CST)
Casting Shurikens with Spirit of Peppermint, Staff of the Walk-in Freezer, 384 Myst.
If elemental damage is multiplied:
((3 to 8) + 15 + 10 + 20) * 2.5 = 120 to 132.5 cold damage
I got: 133, 120, 125, 123, 133
Similarly for Cannon and Mortar Shell. Looks like elemental damage is multiplied again.
--Missim 13:26, 24 June 2008 (CDT)
In accordance to above:
I've been in Hobopolis, trying to figure out what equipment to use to overkill the hobos without a chance of killing them normally. So I went and used the Pasta formula. And got completely different results. After a bit of testing, I found that the results look more like the formula for Sauce spells.
Equipment was as following:
Static spell bonus: Brimstone Brooch (+40)
Elemental spell bonus: Sinful Desires (+10 Sleaze), Spirit of Bacon Grease (+10, for the first tests only)
% bonus spell damage: Staff of the Grand Flambé (+150%), navel ring of navel gazing (+100%), Ankh of Badahnkadh (+25%)
So a total of +40 generic spell damage, +20 (+10 for later tests) of +sleaze spell damage, and 375% (100% + 150% + 100% + 25%) spell damage.
Spells tested were Cannelloni Cannon and Stuffed Mortar Shell.
Here's my results (table shamelessly stolen from above):
| Spell | Random Component | Myst | Generic | Elemental | Pasta Formula | Sauce Formula | Observed | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Canneloni Cannon | 8 (min) | 20 (cap) | 40 | 20 | 275 | 255 | 255 | Static spell damage already hits the cap. Pasta formula would just add it, thus the difference of 20. |
| Canneloni Cannon | 16 (max) | 20 (cap) | 40 | 20 | 305 | 285 | 285 | |
| Stuffed Mortar Shell (with Flavor of Magic) | 16 (min) | 30 (cap) | 40 | 20 | 343 | 398 | 398 | Bonus damage cap is 60, with Sauce formula static and elemental together hit it exactly. |
| Stuffed Mortar Shell (with Flavor of Magic) | 40 (max) | 30 (cap) | 40 | 20 | 433 | 488 | 488 | |
| Stuffed Mortar Shell (without Flavor of Magic) | 16 (min) | 30 (cap) | 40 | 10 | 333 | 360 | 364 | I didn't have enough turns left to hit the minimum, but 364 is the next lowest possible damage. |
| Stuffed Mortar Shell (without Flavor of Magic) | 40 (max) | 30 (cap) | 40 | 10 | 423 | 450 | 450 |
All numbers I got with the spells were accurate with the possible results from the sauce spell damage formula (after rounding). I'm sorry that I don't have large sample sizes (Around 100 turns spent, sometimes two casts per fight, so around 100 spells casted alltogether), I ran out of turns. But the numbers were dead-on, so I figured I'll post this here.
As the post above this one shows that I'm not the only one, I'm almost certain that the spell damage formula is the same for both pasta and sauce spells. Some more testing might necessary for the other spells. --Ocoma 16:19, 23 August 2008 (CDT)
The Pastamancer spells don't use the same formula as Sauceror spells, their elemental damage is uncapped. The reason your spading shows differently is that you thought Sinful Desires and Spirit of Bacon Grease were elemental spell damage, but they're generic. The real formula for Pastamancer spells is
Pasta Damage = Multiplier × (Base + Myst Bonus + Cap[Generic Bonus] + Elemental Bonus )
as opposed to
Pasta Damage = Multiplier × (Base + Myst Bonus + Cap[Generic Bonus] ) + Elemental Bonus
as it is stated now. I will edit the page. --Missim 08:00, 31 August 2008 (CDT)
Rewrite
I rewrote/tweaked most of this page, hopefully making it clearer and easier to understand. If I left out anything important, or anything seems confusing, please let me know! (Or, of course, fix it yourself. ^_^) Also, would it be better to move the formula section above the explanation? --Starwed 00:51, 30 January 2008 (CST)
Salsaball
Lowered my Mysticality to 1, took off all my equipment and stripped myself of buffs, Salsaball did 2-3. Brought my Myst back up into the 300s, Salsaball still did 2-3. Lowered Myst to 1, added various combinations of absolute spell damage increasers, Salsaball did 7-8, except for the "just a clown wig" outfit, when it was 5-6. Got exactly +200% spell damage (Well Tempered Cauldron, Badankadh Ankh, Psycho Sweater, Cordials of Concentration, both Concentrated and not), tried it all again, got the same results multiplied by 3. Therefore, my conclusion is that Salsaball works exactly how you would have guessed. --Johnny Treehugger 17:01, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Simple Question
Although I couldn't find it answered on this or other linked pages. Do percentage increases from items and buffs stack (like item drop) or not (as crit multiplier). E.g. with ankh of badankh and blackberry slippers, do they add to 30% or stay with the ankh's 25%?
I imagine that they do stack, but it is good to have it down somewhere. I think under "Bonus Percentage Spell Damage" would be best.--Fuseki 01:39, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, they stack. You can pretty much assume everything stacks unless it's noted to be otherwise. Noting this explicitly on every page would get rather tiresome. --BagatelleT/C 01:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Quick Question
Is there a calculator out there that has the bonus spell damage already on it? Because I don't really get the example on the pace. --Duckey Yoda 18:32, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Another Quick Question
It's about the multiplier, is it always 2.5 as shown in the examples or do they vary depending on the spell cast? Sorry, if the question seems stupid, I just didn't find the answer anywhere. --Best22 22:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
- No, the 2.5 is due to the +150% from the staff of the example. --BagatelleT/C 01:22, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks Bagatelle. It seems so obvious now. I don't know why I haven't realized it before. --Best22 17:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Splashback doesn't lose, if you win
Apparently the damage of splashback is calculated after it determines if you win or lose a combat. I just fired a Stream at a ghuol, forgetting about the +20 spell damage on my sniff-bow. I hit the ghuol for 32 damage, and splashed myself for 19 damage; despite that being enough to leave me at 0 and beaten up when all was said and done, I still got the "You win the fight!" message, loot, and stats. --Terion 19:34, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Critical Hits
So we have critical hits for spells. I did some testing (with Stream, basically), at it looks like the formula is this one:
- Sauce Damage = Multiplier × ( Crit × ( Base + Myst Bonus ) + Cap[Generic Bonus + Elemental Bonus] )
where Crit is 2 for Critical hits, or 1 otherwise. --Pcentella 01:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
100 casts of Stream gave me five critical hits. Normal casts did 23-24 damage, criticals 36. 5% chance and +50% damage, it seems like. Of course, I'm just a hobbyist spade, and more data points are needed. KennyMan666 01:44, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I was getting double damage on Ravioli Shurikens. Intrinsic Spiciness gives +damage to sauce spells, so that may be something that should be taken into account. —Yendor 02:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
- I was noting that, but you posted first and gave me the conflict error. :D Yeah, Kenny is spicy, so his streams are 3-4, +10 for Myst, +10 for IS. Pcentella's theory would predict 36-38, which is OK. --Terion 02:21, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Heh yeah, I admit to paying more attention to the CRITICAL HIT text than to the damage numbers. I did probably do 36-38 with the crits.
So the formula seems to be correct. Now to see if that 5% crit chance guess is correct. KennyMan666 02:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
New table not finished
Anyone wanna finish this off? User:Raijinili/Spells --Raijinili 01:11, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
It's pretty done now. Guys? Anyone? --Raijinili 22:09, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
- Thing is, that table is much harder to parse by looking at it. The color coding is a good idea, but I don't think I like how it works out in practice. I'll try to spend some time soon coming up w/ my own take, then we can try to reconcile them. --Starwed 02:48, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
- I mean it to also replace the lists on the Spells page. Maybe break it up into multiple tables? S, P, H? --Raijinili 01:42, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
This is kind of an awesome amount of information. It is, however, kind of hard to understand. Is there a way to do graphs on the wiki (without going to outside pages whose js sometimes doesn't work)? For example, I find myself continually graphing the difference between the pasta spells
like this, mod misspellings. --Golemyeti 16:37, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
