Talk:Shieldbutt
- Does shieldbutt cause lost shields? I haven't seen anywhere here, and it happens rarely enough that I haven't seen an _exact_ message telling me it was happening in game, but, does repeatedly using Shieldbutt cause you to lose your shield? I've gone through a 3 or 4 Antique Shields using shieldbutt repeated in the Haunted Bedroom. Suddenly shieldbutt isn't an option anymore, and I find that the shield I had equipped is gone. Strangely I can reapply the outfit I had saved with that shield, and it lets me, but the shield is still not there until I find or buy a new one. --DarkJMKnight 11:26, 26 December 2006 (CST)
- It's not the skill...it's your shield. Read the entry for the antique shield. --Nimtherat 12:41, 26 December 2006 (CST)
- It appears that different shields cause different amounts of damage with this skill. I tested five shields (the Cloaca-cola shield, gnauga hide buckler, penguin skin buckler, star buckler, and yakskin buckler) as a Turtle Tamer with 271 muscle. The Cloaca-cola shield did 4-6 damage per hit. All the Armorcraftiness-made shields did around the same damage, 10-19 per hit. The star buckler caused a lot more damage - 16-30 per hit. Given that last one, it seems that damage isn't tied into the shield's damage absorption like it is with kneebutt.--Discordia 16:24, 18 March 2006 (CST)
- I assumed shieldbutt damage was tied to the power of the shield. The cola shield is 30 (or less), the yakskin, gnauga hide, and penguin bucklers are 90, and the star buckler is 165. Assuming shieldbutt uses the same formula as with melee weapons (random number between .1 and .2, multiplied by the power), that pretty much fits your data. --Ricket 17:05, 18 March 2006 (CST)
- In a relatic topic, they just added a Damage Reduction attribute to all the shields. It's 1 for the cola shields, 5 for the TT shields and 10 for the star buckler. All of which roughly corresponds to the damage done by each with Shieldbutt.--Discordia 17:38, 18 March 2006 (CST)
- This skill IMO, is one of the best skills in the game when combined w/ head and kneebut. I just beat the sourceress with only it and the furry suit combo. 5 rounds. Literally beat her in 5 rounds w/ the star buckler. Just thought I'd give input about this skill. Thank you Jick, Skully, Xeno, and other members of the /dev team. Thank you--Naten186 19:17, 23 April 2006 (CDT)
- After reading this, I gave it a try, and I too defeated her really quickly and easily using the Head+Knee+Shield combo... Not counting the number of times she countered my skill, it took me 5 rounds as well ... 3 in the first form, and 2 in the second. Wow. Turtle Tamers don't suck anymore! ;) --Gothhenge 19:53, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
- If you use a shieldbutt+kneebutt+headbutt do the pants and hat modifiers for knee and head still apply?--Hhhhh 12:15, 13 May 2006 (CDT)
- Yeah.--Dehstil 14:55, 13 May 2006 (CDT)
- Gnauga hide bucklers consistently hit for 10 damage. I was running approximately 140 buffed muscularity before ascending. The damage didn't vary when I was fighting the sorceress with 105 muscle as opposed to any regular monster. --Tortle faced 00:35, 7 June 2006 (CDT)
- About the stun percentage. Is it just me, or does the skill tend to stun more when you combo all the butt(not the human body part) skills together?--Blahking 09:26, 29 June 2006 (CDT)
- Question: Does Shieldbutt have the same no-ranged-weapon limitation as the other butt skills? Also, does it negate the Fumble chance? My personal experience suggests that this is the case, but I've only ascended three times as a TT. -- Dornbeast 18:34, 10 July 2006 PDT
I suspect that the "bullrush like Moses" reference is not to the biblical character, but to a famous football player. Can anyone nail down a specific player named "Moses" who would frequently bullrush?--JP 11:45, 12 August 2006 (CDT)
New Shield Numbers
I've done some testing with the new shields from the manor. Unfortunately, I still have no clue what the damage from the formula could be - all my models have been proven. Here's all my data, for anyone who wants to try and figure this thing out:
| SHIELD NAME | DR | DAMAGE |
| pixel shield | 3 | 5-11 |
| Cloaca-Cola shield | 4 | 8-15 |
| gnauga hide buckler | 5 | 9-19 |
| snarling wolf shield | 7 | 11-24 |
| star buckler | 10 | 17-33 |
| antique shield | 15 | 23-46 |
--Discordia 13:35, 22 September 2006 (CDT)
- Well, this is encouraging -- Salien posted the results of his spading on the KoL forums, and his results agree nicely with yours. The consensus is that there is a hidden 'power' assigned to each accessory -- it used to be shown, but is not now. Accessory power can be deduced through a few means, including choosing "sort by power" from the account menu; by backing it out of the pulverize yield; or by looking at the 'to-equip' requirement (though power was divorced from equip some time back they are often correlated unless game design dictates otherwise). Based on these figures, Salien posits the power rating of each shield to be:
coffin lid/pixel shield: 55 power, 5-11 damage cloaca-cola/dyspepsi-cola shield: 75 power, 7-15 damage white satin shield: 80 power, 8-16 damage gnauga/hippo/penguin/yakskin buckler: 95 power, 9-19 damage snake/snarling wolf shield: 117 power, 11-24 damage star buckler: 165 power, 16-33 damage antique shield: 230 power, 23-46 damage
The pilgrim shield requires testing, preferably by someone who has one to test with.--DirkDiggler 22:27, 3 November 2006 (CST)
- I've played around with my pilgrim shield a bit, and found a range of 24-48 damage at level 10. That would give a power of 240, based on the tentative formula shown here. I also added in some data for the newer shield. Not the largest data sample, but the power should be accurate to the nearest 5 points (damage might be off by one on the high or low end).--QuantumNightmare 15:34, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
- I've gotten as low as 18 with the antique shield against the Mobile Armored Sweat Lodge; the damage formula might be more complicated.--Impied 13:31, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
- See the fact that people are discussing possible damage reduction of the MASL, I am not suprised. --Mercantilia 18:17, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
Anyone trek through a Bad Moon Turtle Tamer ascension and would be willing to tell us the damage from the Brimstone Bunker?--Wildfire393 02:51, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
I don't know how much this will help anyone, but I have been doing 37-48 damage consistantly with shieldbutt against the Elfborg's and Crimbo scaling monsters using the Polyalloy shield dropped by the Turtle Mech's.--Braska 23:26, 14 December 2007 (CST)
Turtle Shield Bonus?
Does anyone know if wearing sewer turtle/box turtle or one of the shields created by meatsmithing them gives a bonus to this skill, the same way wearing a helmet turtle gives a bonus to Headbutt? --Duck and Cover 19:44, 18 January 2007 (CST)
- This will actually be difficult to determine, since our best means of figuring out the power of a shield (and thus it's "base" damage) is by using this skill. Still, we can see if the damage is significantly higher than other shields of similar damage reduction, and use the order-by-power trick to see if the damage range is higher than expected vs. other shields. I'll mess with them next time I have access to the skill.--Salien 03:18, 25 January 2007 (CST)
- Seems like the new turtle shields don't provide a bonus to damage, regarding shieldbutt. The damage is low to begin with, and when I have shields sorted by power they come out in the same order as shown in the article. For example, coffin lid is shown between box turtle and cardboard box turtle, in my inventory when "sort by power" is selected.--QuantumNightmare 16:00, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
Black shield
So far using the Black shield w/shieldbutt I have seen from 16-32 damage. Anyone else gotten higher/lower? I'll update if I get anything outside that range.
-Dalilama -June 27
Star Shield
I just got 34 damage with star shield, which is outside of the 10-20% range, even considering rounding up the decimal. Edit: I've also not seen it do 16 damage, only as low as 17. I'm gonna change it if I don't see anything different. Edit edit: damn. Just got a 16 hitter. I guess it's the same as the black shield, although that question mark makes me think I should do some spadin' on that one next.--Joel 00:20, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
Polyalloy Shield
Anybody tested to see how much damage this new crimbo shield does? I would but I don't have any characters with the skill currently...--Sir Spanky 09:01, 17 December 2007 (CST)
Quite a lot. i've gotten 47 before. It likely does 24-48 though i havent done less than 32 yet. --Currman 15:43, 18 December 2007 (CST)
Ok. So i was correct in my spading of 32-48, i just failed to believe the value. It seems to suggest shields dont have a power rating and the devs just set their damage arbitrarily (is that even a word) --Currman 13:41, 20 December 2007 (CST)
Weird to think it is more powerful than the difficult-to-obtain shields eh?--Sir Spanky 19:17, 20 December 2007 (CST)
I wonder - does anyone else thinka that the polyalloy shield gets a bonus to shieldbutt because it was part of a turtle mech? --Hollow49 17:59, 5 February 2008 (CST)
- That would imply that the other turtle shields (e.g., box turtle) would get a bonus, and it doesn't seem that way... Unless the ranges have changed since the data were posted on the article. --Bagatelle 18:35, 5 February 2008 (CST)
- Even though the other turtle shields do not have such a bonus, I believe the polyalloy shield does. If you sort your inventory by power, it sits between the wolf shield and the black shield, and going by the DR/power formula I posited below, it should have a power of 144-159. Also, the range as shown doesn't follow the normal weapon damage at all, no weapon could do 32-48. However, everything does make sense if it is, say, power 155, with a bonus of 17. It was added after all the other turtle shields; it may be they've just decided to start adding in a turtle damage boost, and haven't/won't do the same for old turtle shields. Or maybe they don't realize they didn't do it for the older turtle shields.--Salien 15:39, 7 April 2008 (CDT)
Dallas Dynasty Falcon Crest shield
first time on the wiki so please forgive any mistakes.
I've been using shield butt with the Dallas for about 250 attacks. so far it's hitting for 28-48. I'm Level 13 for now. --Cathyoak 05:28, 23 January 2008 (CST)
Deleveling Spading
Some initial spading...I need to test with a lower level turtle tamer.
Testing against ducks with a level 27 Turtle Tamer, unarmed:
- Barskin Buckler, dazed: never deleveled
- Barskin Buckler, confused: 5, always
- Ancient Shield, dazed: never deleveled
- Ancient Shield, confused: 5, always
That's one from each end of the power chain, so it doesn't appear to delevel based on strength.
Testing against Whitey's Grove with a level 12 Turtle Tamer, unarmed:
- Demon Buckler, dazed: never deleveled
- Demon Buckler, confused: 5, always
- White Satin Shield, dazed: never deleveled
- White Satin Shield, confused: 5, always
Does not appear to delevel based on muscle or level. --Foggy 11:51, 20 December 2007 (CST)
Actually, dazing reduces monster attack. I've added this to the main page. --Toper 14:23, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
I've tested shieldbutting at very low levels, the messages I get suggest that the amount of Monster Attack reduction is based on either half your level (minimum 1), the shield's power, or both. Need some more data to confirm this. --Wrldwzrd89 20:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
A Formula ?
According to a recent radio show transcription here, shields have a formula involving power and DR (see the question about equipment breaking the 200 power barrier, and Jick's confirmation that some shields already do, as we've discovered here). Well, I checked, and as far as I can tell all known shields follow the formula:
DR = floor(power/16)
This gives us a means to at least approximately determine any new shield's power based on its DR, at least within a range of 16. From there, exact power will still have to be determined by using Shieldbutt, though.--Salien 15:22, 7 April 2008 (CDT)
Six-Rainbow shield
I snagged this sheild and use Shieldbutt all the time. I get a good 22-26 bonus damage with it using Shieldbutt, but I'm normally pretty heavily buffed. Is this consistant with what other people have been getting with the shield? Neito 01:27, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
- And, of course, just as I say that, I get 36 extra damage. Is there such a thing as a Crit shieldbutt? Neito 01:28, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Spongy Shield
I managed to make a Spongy Shield after wasting around 50,000 Meat on an attempt to get something decent in The Sea. Since my Makeshift Scuba Gear lowers my item drop rate so much I can't do get anything to drop, I bought Cupcakes, Snowcones, and a Raven Feather. That's not what matters, though, what matters is I've been getting about a range of 25 - 44 damage using Shieldbutt with it. Can anyone else confirm? OvenMasher 18:05 5 December 2008
- My spongy shield just did 35 damage; then 29 damage; then 40 damage. --Kitsunegami 09:21, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- 42, 23, 43. Six adventures is a really small sample but so far (except for the 23) they've been within range.
Data for three Shields
Observed damages:
- Oscus's garbage can lid: 46 combat rounds, range 24-48. Callin' this 240 according to the specifications on the article.
- spongy shield: 39 combat rounds, range 22-44. Callin' this 220.
- eelskin buckler: totally cheating and lifting it off of the KoLmafia data files. They say it's 200, which translates into 20-40 damage.
Old-school flying disk
Smacking people around with the "old-school flying disk" gave me the following results 17, 20, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 25, 25, 25, 26, 28, 31, 33, 38, 38, 41, 44. Range: 17-44 mean: 28 median: 25 mode: 23.--Yucca 19:12, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Actual power
We can now get at the power of shields by using api.php. Specifically, the request http://kingdomofloathing.com/api.php?what=item&id=1937&for=wiki, where you can substitute the item id of whatever you want. A couple of examples:
- Snake shield: 115
- Pollyalloy shield: 140
I'll do more later, when I'm feeling less tired. --Starwed 05:54, 14 November 2011 (CET)
- Not quite whatever you want. Playing with it I see it is limited to things you own. I can do a snake shield but not an astral shield ("You don't own that item."). Still, a good find. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 07:10, 14 November 2011 (CET)
- I'll write a script to extract most of this when I get out of hardcore. I have most of the shields.--Toffile 19:01, 15 November 2011 (CET)
- Well, here's mafia's values for shields. Take a look.
ancient stone head 85 antique shield 230 astral shield 50 balloon shield 50 barskin buckler 25 battered hubcap 220 black shield 160 box turtle 50 brass dorsal fin 200 BRICKO bulwark 60 Brimstone Bunker 240 cardboard box turtle 70 catskin buckler 180 Cloaca-Cola shield 70 clownskin buckler 60 coffin lid 50 Dallas Dynasty Falcon Crest shield 240 demon buckler 80 detour shield 100 duct tape buckler 195 Dyspepsi-Cola shield 70 eelskin shield 200 flimsy clipboard 50 giant clay ashtray 60 gnauga hide buckler 90 grisly shield 200 hippo skin buckler 90 hors d'oeuvre tray 110 hot plate 60 keg shield 170 Loathing Legion pizza stone 100 meat shield 60 Mer-kin roundshield 215 Ol' Scratch's stove door 240 old-school flying disc 220 Operation Patriot Shield 240 Oscus's garbage can lid 240 padded tortoise 100 painted shield 120 peanut brittle shield 50 penguin skin buckler 90 pilgrim shield 240 pixel shield 50 polyalloy shield 140 pottery shield 50 rxr shield 100 sawblade shield 180 sealhide buckler 160 sebaceous shield 35 sewer turtle 20 six-rainbow shield 190 slippery when wet shield 100 snake shield 115 snarling wolf shield 115 speed limit shield 100 spiky turtle shield 130 spongy shield 220 star buckler 165 stinky cheese wheel 100 stop shield 100 teflon shield 220 tortoboggan shield 100 turtle wax shield 40 velcro shield 220 vinyl shield 220 washboard shield 160 white satin shield 80 wicker shield 170 wonderwall shield 190 yakskin buckler 90 yield shield 100 Zombo's shield 240
--Toffile 19:30, 15 November 2011 (CET)
Revamped skill effects
Damage, all done with a Turtle Tamer with Butts of Steel:
- sewer turtle (power: 20), no blessing: 8, 8, 4, 6, 8, 8, 4, 4
- coffin shield (power: 50), no blessing: 16, 10, 10, 14, 12, 20, 12, 16
- black shield (power: 160), no blessing: 58, 64, 34, 52, 30
Looks like double what was previously expected. Also, they're all even numbers, suggesting it's using 10%-20% of power, then doubling it. Damage with War Snapper 1 was the same as with no blessing.
- sewer turtle (power: 20), War Snapper 2: 14, 16, 14, 18, 16, 18
- black shield (power: 160), War Snapper 2: 44, 66, 52, 62, 46, 50, 60
War Snapper 2 seems to add 10 damage to previous result.
- sewer turtle, War Snapper 3: 26, 24, 28
- black shield, War Snapper 3: 68, 58, 80, 70, 60, 76, 54, 56, 74, 82
War Snapper 3 looks like +20.
Staggering: With War Snapper, it sometimes stagger. My theory is that the first use per fight is a guaranteed stagger, while every subsequent use is a 50% chance. That's with War Snapper 1. Not sure if higher rank blessings improve the chance. Shield power does not seem to affect stagger. --Prestige (talk) 10:43, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
