Talk:Way of the Surprising Fist

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Way of the Suprising Fist

Ok so since no one has bothered to yet here we go.

Ii have seen no immediate bonuses from this sign yet, you can not autosell, pull meat from hagnks, meat drops is reducded drastically, and i have items completely not in hagnks. Some of these are things like clockwork maid, fossilized necklace and the like...

Since it won't auto sign for me... -- Kajo 07:20 a.m. 08/15/2010 Kajo 13:22, 15 August 2011 (CEST)

Both my fossilized necklace and clockwork maid existed in Hagnk's, and I pulled them just fine. Mystia 15:43, 15 August 2011 (CEST)

Meat giving Items

I don't think using meat-giving items gives you meat. I used a briefcase earlier today, and it said that I gave it to charity as well. That might need to be checked. Jeff the Mediocre 14:27, 15 August 2011 (CEST)

Meat Drop

Low-level meat drops (anything less than 8 - 12) don't seem to be changed.

With +50%, the monsters that give 4-6, 5-9, or 8 - 12 meat gave the expected 6,7,9; 7,9,10,12,13; or 12,13,15,16,18 meat. But everything that should have given more (the flame-broiled meat blobs, the bats, the meat-dropping Goblins inside the Knob, and so on) only gave 12, 13, 15 or 16. So it seems that any monster that normally drops more than 8 - 12 meat instead drops 8 - 12 meat.

--Agburanarr 15:54, 15 August 2011 (CEST)

Familiar meat drops still work for me (using a NPZR), but I don't want to reverse the main page without additional corroboration. Lady Oolong 18:57, 15 August 2011 (CEST)

As do familiars with Ant farming equipment. Using an Ant Pitchfork, my meat drops per fight went from 9-12 to 20-24. --Capnplague 01:47, 26 August 2011 (CEST)

Fighting the beefy bodyguard bats with Red Tongue I got a high of 20 meat. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 22:59, 15 August 2011 (CEST)

I haven't looked into it much, but I noticed that skills and effects and lep-type familiars do still help. The problem looks to be that the Meat drop from monsters is subjected to some as-yet-unknown formula. Probably something simple like square rooting the meat drop before giving it to you, so that bodyguard bats with +100% Meat would give only in the range 20-24. It could also be something slightly less straightforward, like the soft caps for boss damage, something like.. min(drop_amount, 11+(drop_amount-11)^0.5) where it doesn't affect super low meat drops, but anything more than 11 and it does. That's the kind of thing I'd look for. --RoyalTonberry 21:45, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

  • I think every monster just has a 12-ish average base meat drop, if they drop any at all. I haven't seen a single monster go beyond that, and don't think I've seen a single one go below it. People have fought brigands and still only gotten 16 meat to drop, and if it was something like a square root they should be giving nearly 3 times as much as giants. But they definitely aren't. Lep familiars do help, non-lep +meat is less clear (polka hasn't seem to have had much effect, but maybe I just kept hitting the low end). --Flargen 23:48, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

Every combat from Hey Deze to the Palindome has given me 12,13,15,16 or 18 meat drops, with only passives (+50%). I tried Polka for one set of ten, and I got a result of 20, so it looks like the effect is just capping the base meat drop.--Agburanarr 11:29, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

Misc

Could someone who knows better how to add adventures add the teachings adventure to the bat hole entrance? Text is: Ong-Bat

Just inside the entrance to the Bat Hole, you find an ancient and guano-encrusted skeleton, sitting meditatively in the lotus position. This catches your attention, obviously, since although the cave has no shortage of ancient guano-encrusted skeletons, few of them could be described as 'meditative'.

The skeleton has a parchment scroll in (what's left of) its lap; you bow respectfully to the figure before taking the scroll and carefully unrolling it.

It describes a careful study of the movements of bats, and an attempt to translate and refine these movements into a new animal-based martial arts style. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like a very useful one, since it's mainly based around making high-pitched shrieking noises and then getting tangled in your opponent's hair. Still, there might be a trick or two here that you can use.

Teachings of the Fist You acquire an item: Teachings of the Fist [use]

  • Done. Also removed the tabs in your quote so it's not so obnoxiously long. --Lizardking 18:07, 15 August 2011 (CEST)

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any idea why the challenge path is called Way of the Surprising Fist, but the images are prefixed with "wosp"? I'm guessing there was a name change, but I'm wondering what the original name was. Way of Surprising Punches? Sucker Punches? Sneaky Pete? --Lizardking 18:17, 15 August 2011 (CEST)

  • I'd guess "Palms". Or a pun on "wasp" after the bee challenge. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 03:54, 16 August 2011 (CEST)

Teachings

There are apparently 11 skills you can learn. Taking a look at the skills table, you can see the following block. 0064 Miyagi Massage
0065 Salamander Kata
0066 Flying Fire Fist
0067 Stinkpalm
0068 Seven-Finger Strike
0069 Knuckle Sandwich
0070 Chilled Monkey Brain Technique
0071 Drunken Baby Style
0072 Worldpunch
0073 Zendo Kobushi Kancho
0074 Master of the Surprising Fist

So there's 11 zones. The fifth scroll is needed to be able to mine so a clannie says...and skill 74 is permable.--Toffile 21:30, 15 August 2011 (CEST)

Just thought I'd confirm that free runaways do count towards the 12 turns, as some people were asking about it. --Lizardking 20:11, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

Anyone know if the scrolls drop after you beat the NS and free the King? --Arakasi 05:27, 25 August 2011 (CEST)

  • They don't. --Flargen 05:30, 25 August 2011 (CEST)

no damn luck

just spent twenty turns in The Haunted Conservatory with no drop. do you have to do them in order? is there some other mechanic at work? am i just dumb? --Evilkolbot 23:18, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

  • You don't need to do them in order (certainly I skipped around a bit). Not sure about other mechanics...perhaps you already have the one from there...? (sadly, there's no way to check that without redoing them). --Fig bucket 23:41, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

I should add as a SC, when getting Seals at a location, it increments your turn count on mafia logs, but does not help you get the scroll faster. So ended up getting "16 turns" to get a specific scroll. Not that this would happen in the conservatory... --Darkwolf 00:05, 19 August 2011 (CEST)

I have just had this happen to me as well. I have all the other zones, but after trying on three separate days far more than 12 turns each day, was never able to get the Haunted Conservatory adventure. (Luckily, I've already permed the last one, so the only consequence is that it took me longer to get each skill after the Conservatory). --Parmeisan 20:20, 20 September 2011 (CEST)

Rat whisker

Rat whiskers still sell for 50 meat to the artist. is this intentional?--Ganomex 23:43, 15 August 2011 (CEST)

Chiknees Japanknees

Are we seriously having this discussion? I guess.

The image of each skill is described as the Japanese character for X. These characters are originally from Chinese.

For example, from Salamanderenity, what is called "salamander" (and is actually a specific type of salamander, apparently) wikipedia:Cryptobranchoidea = wikipedia:ja:山椒魚 = wikipedia:zh:山椒魚. Forgive my lack of coherence for that previous sentence.

I don't know how they got those characters. --Raijinili 09:51, 16 August 2011 (CEST)

Messages for meat-drop items

I just used an orcish meat locker and got this message:

You unlock the Meat locker with your rusty metal key, and then dump the contents directly into a charity box at a nearby convenience store. Those kids with boneitis are sure to appreciate the gesture.

I imagine there's a series of special messages for items that drop meat, but I didn't see them collected anywhere. I thought I'd put this here--we can copy it elsewhere when we figure out a good place for it. --19:09, 16 August 2011 (CEST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Southwest (talk • contribs)

  • Are the messages random, or are they fixed per item. Perhaps I was too hasty in adding on to the briefcase page. I've got another for the Chest of the Bonerdagon:
The Cola Wars Veterans Administration is really gonna appreciate the huge donation you're about to make!

Oh, and I've done the same thing. Five ~ is too many: --19:35, 16 August 2011 (CEST) {no name} Three is too few: --Club (#66669) (Talk) {no time} And four is just right: --Club (#66669) (Talk) 19:35, 16 August 2011 (CEST)

    • I sign my name around here all the time--this one was just a complete and total mistake. Thanks for the heads-up, though! --Southwest 19:58, 16 August 2011 (CEST)

I got the same "Cola Wars Veterans Administration" note for the chest of the Bonerdagon. --Southwest 07:30, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

  • McLargeHuge message:
The furs you divide up between yourself and the Tr4pz0r, the Meat you divide up between the Tr4pz0r and the needy.

This would be a really hard path without a lot of permed skills. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 20:19, 16 August 2011 (CEST)

I don't have a lot of permed skills and so far i'm finding it no harder than i found bees hate you. in some ways easier -- there was a tight spot in bhy when i couldn't hit anything on the battlefield as an accordion thief. i just couldn't get my moxie high enough. clearly, this path would be easier with a ton of skills, but it's manageable without them. i'd recommend moxie classes, actually (seems counter intuitive without ranged weapons, but drunken baby takes care of that problem), because you don't have to worry so much about being hit. even mp restores don't take any meat with the salamander thing, so it's pretty good all round. --Pthalo 01:36, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

Kitchens dilema

I'm currently using earthen fist but I'm not getting any items from the knob kitchens, with or without the remaining knob uniforms. I'm going to try it just with the harem disguise to see if thats all I need to do.--Tombot 16:43, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

  • Turns out it was, I'm going to add that info if I can.--Tombot 17:06, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

Recover the Sister's Meat

While doing the nun quest during the Mysterious Island war, it appears that the bandits are still affected by the meat cap (I only received 18 meat upon killing my first bandit)

It would seem that the best course of option is to just skip the nun quest completely.

However, another possibility is that the nuns require a significantly less amount of meat to be taken back from the bandits (perhaps something along the lines of 500-1000 meat?). I would actually find this unlikely though. --Monji 20:52, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

Using MEAT VORTICES DOES WORK in this area. So if you have a bunch of them, you can reap more meat here than almost anywhere else in the Kingdom. I never got more than 50 meat per adventure for the nuns, so I figured it would take over 2000 turns to collect all their meat (assuming it's still 100,000 needed). --Drewster 19:57, 25 August 2011 (CEST)

Because no one else seems to have tried for long, and I'm not a speed runner or anything, I spent 28 turns here to collect 1,023 meat. (I don't have a lot of permed skills, but most of them are meat-related, and I had a 30lb leprechaun, and for 10 turns I had Sinuses for Miles on). This averages 36.54 meat per adventure. I used Meat Vortex for 26 of those for a total of 15,803 meat, averaging just over 600 meat per adventure. (I had always thought that Meat vortex meat went to the nuns as well, but I guess not, as my own meat is going up whenever I use them). Anyway, the main point of this experiment was to note that the nuns are still saying the first message, meaning that I am not more than 1/4 of the way there yet after 1000 meat, so it seems unlikely that the total required has changed. --Parmeisan 18:03, 28 August 2011 (CEST)

Comedy Prop

"You will not be able to equip the hilarious comedy prop. This means you will not be able to complete Azazel's quest to get your Organ of Steel." Is this correct? Last I checked, the observational glasses are what you use to get Azazel's trinket... --Quietust (t|c) 23:00, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

  • you're way ahead of me. working it through, i found out just that. trial and error is a kind of spading, no? --Evilkolbot 23:01, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

Strategy

You can use TS and LTS while unarmed, but does that make then useful during a Way of the Surprising Fist-run? And while we're at it: Is Eye of the Stoat worth mentioning? --Yatsufusa 09:16, 20 August 2011 (CEST)

I don't see why you need LTS, Eye of the Stoat, or high muscle generally. The zero-MP Fist skills are autohit and do lots of damage. For that matter, having Kung Fu Hustler is nice for the +50% init and +20% items but it's not necessary. Nor is spellslinging. Really all you need is moxie, so that you don't get hit. AT is probably the easiest class because if you want to make a useless epic weapon to open the Fun House, it at least gives you an epic weapon that lengthens the duration of all your AT buffs.--Rpxx 15:53, 20 August 2011 (CEST)

  • Well, that settles it. Thanks. --Yatsufusa 16:31, 20 August 2011 (CEST)

I feel uncomfortable with the Summon Clip Art-Skill listed. While it is true that this skill can be pretty helpful and was partly tailored to fit a Surprising Fist-run better than other ascension-types, any given Mr. Store skill (except Summon Hilarious Objects) will aid any given run. --Yatsufusa 04:14, 2 September 2011 (CEST)

O.A.F.

So I felt like doing a 100% O.A.F. WotSP run, in part just to see if it's autoselling would provide meat, in part because OH GOD WHY. After today's 188 adventures, it hasn't autosold a single thing. Presumably this 'feature' was deactivated in WotSP (or just some crazy RNG), though I'm have to say I'm quite surprised that someone remembered. So no, you can't get the O.A.F. to autosell antiques in the Gallery or whatever. --Lizardking 19:23, 21 August 2011 (CEST)

Spading

Recent question from /newbie , for spading felt the need to re-post here. For the level 11 council quest, how do I summon the giant worm to unlock the hidden pyramid without being able to equip the worm riding hooks? Answer, just use the drum machine while having the hooks in inventory, you'll get the same result, including the same descriptive text. - AvangionQ / August 22nd, 2011.

More Midgame Meat

Just discovered that the choice adventures at the hippy camp (the ones that show up after level 9 if you don't have the outfit) still drop the meat if you choose those options. Hardly optimal, but I guess players at levels 9-11 who've used up all their other sources could get some more meat there by getting rid of their hippy outfit.--Jett 23:49, 27 August 2011 (CEST)

Choice adventures in the Cyrpt (for example, choosing "Open up the closed one" on Death Rattlin') give the full meat drop.--Sworisbreathing (talk) 12:09, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

ant hoe/pick/etc =

I don't know where to put this on the main page, but:

If you're hurting for meat at level 11 (as I am, still haven't managed to buy a dictionary, let alone scrounge enough up for the palindrome), it may be worth it to olfact a swarm of fire ants -- i just got an [[ant hoe] and it works. 10 extra meat per adventure! yay! --Pthalo 17:29, 28 August 2011 (CEST)

Negative Status Effects

Now this could just be luck on my part, but it seems like I get a lot fewer negative status effects under WotSF. Specifically things like poisoned from jellyfish in the menagerie, poisoned from the snakes in the pyramid and black forest, and Cunctatitis. Anyone else notice this? --Club (#66669) (Talk) 21:55, 31 August 2011 (CEST)

  • I've noticed this too, which might also be luck, but also because of interference with skills (cunctatitis would be debilitating in a fist run, and healing it possibly moreso), and/or it won't affect the power of the skills (each skill doesn't depend on your stats). Argus 00:05, 1 September 2011 (CEST)

Hipster fights

Just got a scroll with hipster fights counting towards the 12 adventure per zone requirement in that I got it in 8 + 4 hipster fights Zefy 12:33, 4 September 2011 (CEST)

  • Not really surprising, you can use a Hipster to force the counter to increment for the other delay counters in the game.--Toffile 18:48, 4 September 2011 (CEST)--Toffile 18:48, 4 September 2011 (CEST)

Cocoabo-type Familiars?

I started a surprising fist run yesterday with a Stocking Mimic intending to use a rudimentary stasis technique to get myself some meat, but after more than 100 combats fought entirely using a seal tooth, I have only seen it drop meat once, whereas it has attacked, deleveled and healed many times. Is there a known reduction in meat drop frequency which I was unaware of? Does this carry over to other cocoabo-type familiars? Am I simply being RNG-screwed?--Yiab 17:30, 10 September 2011 (CEST)

  • Okay apparently I'm an idiot and missed the note on the page saying that familiars weren't supposed to drop meat in a fist run (I've been away for a while and I had to check to see who Gemelli is and why I should care what e says). I guess I'll change my question to: I have had the stocking mimic drop meat once, and it seemed to be a normal amount (200+ meat). Minor bug? Odds reduction? Faulty memory?--Yiab 17:35, 10 September 2011 (CEST)

Mandatory expenses and the Oracle

Just to clarify the edits, if you're in hardcore, even if the third gate is Teleportitis, you still need to consult the Oracle to get a potion of teleportitis or get a wand to zap a ring of teleportation. There's no way around it. --Johnny Treehugger 14:03, 21 September 2011 (CEST)

  • Actually you can get Teleportitis from the Typographical Clutter-adventure, choosing The upper-case Q. Remember that you have to debuff yourself with Teleportitis in order to see the Oracle. --Yatsufusa 16:45, 21 September 2011 (CEST)
  • Man, I never even thought of that. I'm so used to getting Teleportitis from the potion it didn't even seem like a thing. I'll put a note on the page. --Johnny Treehugger 17:06, 21 September 2011 (CEST)
  • To be honest I'm not sure what it says anymore. My point was this: If the third gate requires Teleportitis, than you would have the option to skip the oracle. Otherwise you still need to see the Oracle, to get the required DoD-potion. --Yatsufusa 17:17, 21 September 2011 (CEST)
  • That's what I was trying to say. If you're in Hardcore and Gate 3 is not Teleportitis, you need to see the Oracle; otherwise, you don't. Maybe I added too much into too short a sentence and it got confused, if anyone can write it more clearly, that would be great. One option is to change the list of expenses from will need / may need to will need (sapling, dictionary, candy, photograph), might need (Big Book, Oracle, meatcar parts), and don't need but might want (everything in the may need section). --Johnny Treehugger 17:37, 21 September 2011 (CEST)

Naughty Sorceress

I just beat the naughty sorceress using 10 un-blocked drunken-baby-style combat techniques. She beat me three times previously by blocking most of the love songs I ambidextrous funk-slung at her. Is it possible that the combat techniques are unblockable by the Naughty Sorceress? Has anyone encountered her actually blocking drunken baby style?--Zorkman 03:53, 1 October 2011 (CEST)

  • yes, me. if you lose to her she stops being as good at blocking. --Evilkolbot 08:09, 1 October 2011 (CEST)

Mandatory beach

Shouldn't either sweet rims or the desert bus pass be listed under mandatory expenditures? No matter what you do, one or the other is required to get to the beach, which you need to do to finish the game. --Leaper 07:25, 9 November 2011 (CET)

You do not need the sweet rims to complete the game. Nor do you need the desert bus pass to complete the game. We are in a logical quandary.--Toffile 15:50, 9 November 2011 (CET)
  • I kinda see Leaper's point. How do you get to the beach without a meat car, pumpkin carriage, or bus pass? And if you don't, how do you you get the dingy plans and diary? That said, I'd say it's already covered with "A variable number of chewing gum on a string and hermit permits." --Club (#66669) (Talk) 19:51, 9 November 2011 (CET)
Yes, but it's under "may" include. Which definitely implies that it "may" be zero. That's what I was thinking when I asked in the first place. --Leaper 04:04, 10 November 2011 (CET)
  • You can pull them (at least in softcore). --Club (#66669) (Talk) 05:25, 10 November 2011 (CET)

Dropping the Path

It seems that dropping the path early makes all the skills collected go away. Where on the wiki should this be mentioned/is it mentioned already but I couldn't find?--AtGNAT 15:37, 30 November 2011 (CET)


Mall

I am doing a normal WotSF run with my alt, and now that I have gone through ronin, I am getting meat from items sold in my mall store. I'm not sure if this is a bug, or if the mall is counted separately from other forms of meat gain.--Dinomage 21:56, 21 June 2012 (CEST)

NS 2015 Revamp: Wall of Meat

I'm 30+ turns in fighting this thing. It seems to be defeated by meat drop, so unless something changes, expect to fight this a lot. Anyone have any viable strategy against it? I'm burning through scented massage oil... --MCroft (talk) 07:25, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

  • By "defeated by meat drop", do you mean "defeated by +X% Meat from Monsters" or "defeated by meat actually dropping during or at the end of a fight" or something completely different? --Yatsufusa (talk) 09:53, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

I think it's actual meat taken. It took me 49 turns to beat the Wall of Meat, with +100% Meat from Monsters or higher almost the entire time. However, that was before whatever was done in Jan 6th Trivial Update ("Fisting the Wall of Skin is now easier"). The wall of skin wasn't too hard, so they may have changed the Wall of Meat. I did put in a bug report, because I thought the 50 turns thing wasn't what they intended. I think that at the time I ascended, it was strictly a count of the meat you recovered, and it was some amount between 1200-2400 (I did not spade carefully), based on the base maximum of 12 meat/combat. I'd be interested in seeing what other Fisters are experiencing here. It may not be my particular circumstances anymore. --MCroft (talk) 06:23, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Now that we have a better idea what the Wall of meat is, I see the problem. At this point I can only assume the (Jan 2nd) trivial update was meant to read "Fisting the Wall of Meat is now easier", because requiring that amount of adventures is just no fun and can't be what they intended. (Also the Wall of skin seems pretty straightforward from the wiki-only point of view.) Either way, thank you for raising awareness. --Yatsufusa (talk) 16:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
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