Talk:Basement Diving Guide

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"Cursed" Combat Items to be Added to Page?

Ok, so with the new pirate content, there are three new combat items available that seem very pertinent to basement diving: cursed voodoo skull, cursed dirty joke scroll, and cursed cannonball. They deal damage equal to buffed mysticality, moxie, and muscle, respectively. Especially when used with Ambidextrous Funkslinging and the V Mask, these can shore up holes in any basement dive: Muscle Classes now have an answer to the N-dimensional horror, and Myst Classes now have an answer to N Bottles of beer on a golem. Any thoughts on this? --Wildfire393 06:07, 15 December 2007 (CST)

  • The 120MP hobopolis skills are cheap and do tons of uncapped myst damage.Averagebob 07:26, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
  • They seem kinda pricey at the moment. Without crunching any numbers, I think it'd be more cost-effective to stick with two permed skills (Snapper and a spell). But there's no reason in principle why they couldn't be added as an alternative. --Bagatelle 21:21, 15 December 2007 (CST)
  • They're really not all that pricey. Also, since Snapper and Fearful Fettucini have no practical use in ascensions, many ascenders will not be willing to spend an ascension on them. This way, you only have to be a TT or Myst class on your first few Dives, since the items can shore up the holes. --Wildfire393 19:47, 19 December 2007 (CST)
  • The Libram of Divine Favors would seem to make dives massively simpler for the same reasons, since you can get similarly high damage levels to the cursed items from the stat-based combat item favors and party favors are essentially free. Perhaps a more general "stat damage items are recommended for Beer Golems" now that there are more of them to choose from? --YunaTwilight 02:49, 04 January 2008 (CST)
  • The Divine Favors would work well, however, at 0.35*mysticality being added to spells you only need ~+175% to your spell damage to get an equal powered non-capped spell. With chefstaves and a navel ring of navel gazing you're more than set, let alone the other items that can boost it further mystic classes do not need to use favors to do quite well. Though doubling favors up with funkslinging would allow you to get further with less buffing. --Uzziah 13:56, 28 August 2008 (CDT)
  • Vicious Talon Slash via Form of Bird is another option for dealing with N Bottles of beer on a golem. Since you'll often have <element>form left over from elemental test, it can work against all other combats too. With a little luck, or the will to spend an adventure outside the basement per llama lama gong, you can pick up a glimmering roc feather into the bargain.--Feliks 10:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Optimal Time To Start A Dive

The section is marked as being incomplete because the combat rate is unknown. In the HCO forums I found a 220-level log from someone named "dalgar". After filtering out some duplicates, there are 81 monsters, 33 elemental tests, 50 stat tests, 7 gauntlets, and 5 festering powders, for a total of 176 (plus the 44 stat gains makes 220). This gives a "combat" rate of 36.8%, or 46.0% if you exclude the stat-gain adventures.

Semirelatedly, what's the ratio between substat gain and mainstat? Dalgar was getting 600 substats on average (after accounting for stat day) but from the logs it's not clear what his mainstat was. --PlatypusNinja 16:39, 26 November 2007 (CST)

I filled this section in. This math was done in anticipation of making my first dive, so it's very possible I got something wrong. Those of you who do this frequently: does starting at 739 sound right-ish? --PlatypusNinja 20:06, 30 November 2007 (CST)

  • I can't speak to whether starting at 27 gets you to 30, since I eschew trophies, but a tiny question on the math... Where'd the extra +2 term in the ML exponential come from? I lifted it originally from the Fernswarthy's Basement article and the only post I found on the HCO forum was 2BL1.4. The 40 in the sombrero equation had me confused for a bit until I realised a default weight of 40 was being used... Maybe note that explicitly? --Bagatelle 20:53, 30 November 2007 (CST)
    • It came from the Beast With N Eyes page, which in retrospect was probably the wrong place to take it. Fixing. --PlatypusNinja 21:45, 30 November 2007 (CST)

I'd also like to add that the sombrero does NOT increase stat gains from the monsters. I've been basement diving, and as far as I can tell, the stat gains total to a quarter of the expected monster level give or take a few percent. --Kenny 12:50, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Code

For reasons of generality, the buff rate on the article is entirely arbitrary, and excludes equipment. That's unreasonable in practice, so here's some Python code that can calculate base stat/damage at given basement levels, as well as required main stat given a buff level that a player can maintain. It'll spit out two tables of tab-separated data, which should be able to be copy-pasted into any decent spreadsheet program. --Bagatelle 15:13, 12 November 2007 (CST) 

################################################################################
# control outputs

# interval between basement levels to output...
# so 25 would output every 25th level
BLStep = 25

# minimum level to output
BLStart = 24

# maximum level to output, subject to BLStep and BLStart parameters
# i.e., it is possible to output zero levels if these parameters
# have strange values
BLEnd = 500

# percentage to pad tests when calculating challenge numbers
# 0 to suppress padding rows
PadPct = 5

# for those who wish to display ONLY padded output for the damage/required
# main stat tables, set this to "False"
# so setting PadPct = 0 and PrintUnpadded = False will guarantee empty output
PrintUnpadded = False

# whether to print basement levels that are multiples of 5
# usually set to "False" because levels mod 5 are always rewards, so
# no point in printing them
# however, if BLStep, BLStart, BLEnd are set to output only multiples of 5,
# the program will output an empty table
Print5 = False

################################################################################
# character/buff configuration: used to calculate main stat required to
# complete a dive

# the script has no error-checking, so don't be a nut a say "True" to both
# Seal Clubber/Turtle Tamer?
MusChar = True
# Pastamancer/Sauceror?
MysChar = False

# HP/MP percentage boosts: do you have these skills available?
GnomishHardigness = False
CosmicUgnderstanding = True
WisdomOfTheElderTortoises = True
SpiritOfRavioli = True

# Outfit data: all outfits assume you are not suffering a
# NET negative effect on stats

# input total percentages for equipment/effects using "Pct" parameters
# input total absolute modifiers for equipment/effects using "Abs" parameters
# input the equipment/buffs you are willing to sustain for the entire dive

# Muscle outfit
MusPct = 900
MusAbs = 50
# Mysticality outfit
MysPct = 900
MysAbs = 50
# Moxie outfit
MoxPct = 900
MoxAbs = 50

# HP outfit: ignores DR, which is negligible at high BL
HPMusPct = 800
HPMusAbs = 50
HPAbs = 0
HPDA = 1000

# MP outfit
MPMysPct = 900
MPMysAbs = 50
MPAbs = 0

# Elemental resistance outfit: assumes outfit is the same for all elements
EltMusPct = 900
EltMusAbs = 50
EltHPAbs = 0
EltPct = 60

# end configuration
# do not edit anything below this line
################################################################################
from math import *

# standardise percents into multiplier fractions
MusFrac = 1 + MusPct / 100.0
MysFrac = 1 + MysPct / 100.0
MoxFrac = 1 + MoxPct / 100.0
DAFrac = 1 - (sqrt(HPDA / 10) - 1) / 10
EltFrac = 1 - EltPct / 100.0
EltMusFrac = 1 + EltMusPct / 100.0
HPMusFrac = 1 + HPMusPct / 100.0
MPMysFrac = 1 + MPMysPct / 100.0
PadFrac = 1 + PadPct / 100.0

# change passive "skills" into multipliers
if MusChar:
  ClassHP = 1.5
else:
  ClassHP = 1.0
if MysChar:
  ClassMP = 1.5
else:
  ClassMP = 1.0
if WisdomOfTheElderTortoises:
  MPWisdom = 1.5
else:
  MPWisdom = 1.0
if CosmicUgnderstanding:
  MPCosmic = 1.05
else:
  MPCosmic = 1.0
if SpiritOfRavioli:
  HPSpirit = 1.25
else:
  HPSpirit = 1.0
if GnomishHardigness:
  HPHardiness = 1.05
else:
  HPHardiness = 1.0

# generate headers for list of basement data
BL = dict(
  BL = "BL", Stat = "Stat", Elt = "Elt (2x)", Phys = "Phys", Drain = "Drain"
)
Basement = [BL]
# calculate challenge data for desired basement levels
for Level in range(BLStart, BLEnd, BLStep):
  if Print5 or Level % 5 != 0:
    # format harddrive
    Basement.append(dict(
      BL = Level, Stat = Level**1.4 + 2, Elt = 4.48 * Level**1.4 + 8,
      Phys = 10 * Level**1.4, Drain = 1.67 * Level**1.4
    ))

# calculate chart of stat/damage done for common stat levels
for Rec in range(0, len(Basement)):
  Level = Basement[Rec]
  if Rec == 0:
    # header row
    TestStrengths = [[
      ["BL"], ["Stat"],
      ["Phys (0% DA)", "Phys (60% DA)", "Phys (90% DA)"],
      ["Drain"],
      ["Elt (0% Res)", "Elt (60% Res)", "Elt (80% Res)"]
    ]]
  else:
    # calculate unrounded numbers for common stat levels
    TempArray = [
      [Level["BL"]], [Level["Stat"]],
      [Level["Phys"], 0.4 * Level["Phys"], 0.1 * Level["Phys"]],
      [Level["Drain"]],
      [Level["Elt"], 0.4 * Level["Elt"], 0.2 * Level["Elt"]]
    ]
    # unpadded data: round up
    if PrintUnpadded:
      TestStrengths.append(
        [[repr(TempArray[0])]] + \
          [map(lambda x: int(ceil(x)), Arr) for Arr in TempArray[1:]]
      )
    # padded numbers: pad, then round up
    if PadPct != 0:
      TestStrengths.append(
        [[repr(TempArray[0][0]) + " (" + repr(PadPct) + "% padding)"]] + \
          [map(lambda x: int(ceil(PadFrac * x)), Arr) for Arr in TempArray[1:]]
      )

# calculate required main stat given sustained buffed main stat and
# character configurations as defined by parameters
for Rec in range(0, len(TestStrengths)):
  Level = TestStrengths[Rec]
  if Rec == 0:
    ReqStat = [["BL", "Mus", "Mys", "Mox", "Phys", "Drain", "Elt"]]
  else:
    # the HP/MP backsolve formulae are not exact, because ceiling() and floor()
    # do not have inverse functions
    # however, the large numbers involved and the understanding that there
    # is basement variation anyway makes this largely irrelevant

    # for each basement level with calculated data (including padded data,
    # if calculated), backsolve main stat for three stat tests,
    # HP/MP tests, and elemental test
    ReqStat.append(
      [Level[0][0]] + map(lambda x: int(ceil(x)), [
        # Muscle
        (Level[1][0] - MusAbs) / MusFrac,
        # Mysticality
        (Level[1][0] - MysAbs) / MysFrac,
        # Moxie
        (Level[1][0] - MoxAbs) / MoxFrac,
        # HP
        (
          (DAFrac * Level[2][0] / (HPHardiness * HPSpirit) - HPAbs) / ClassHP \
            - 3 - HPMusAbs
        ) / HPMusFrac,
        # MP
        (Level[3][0] / (MPCosmic * MPWisdom) - MPMysAbs - MPAbs) / MPMysFrac,
        # Elemental
        (
          (EltFrac * Level[4][0] / (HPHardiness * HPSpirit) - EltHPAbs) / \
            ClassHP - 3 - EltMusAbs
        ) / EltMusFrac
      ])
    )

# flatten list of lists into a single list
def Flatten(Arg):
  Val = []
  for Arr in Arg:
    if isinstance(Arr, str) or isinstance(Arr, int):
      Val.append(Arr)
    else:
      # kmail all your rares to a random account
      Val += Arr
  return Val

# tab-separated output
def TabPrint(InList):
  Table = ""
  for Rec in InList:
    Line = "\n"
    Rec = Flatten(Rec)
    for Item in Rec:
      Line += str(Item) + "\t"
    Table += Line
  print Table

print "Test Strengths"
TabPrint(TestStrengths)
print "\nRequired Main Stat (w/ equalising potions and calculated buffs)"
TabPrint(ReqStat)

Gnomitronic Hyperspatial Demodulizer

It seems to me that in a tight situation, the boosts from the GHD could be useful. Not that I've used it in the basement. --Drachefly 11:13, 27 December 2007 (CST)

I tried this a few times. The problem is, getting the boost requires you to spend a turn, thus wasting your other buffs. That is unless you can successfully use the gizmo against basement monsters themselves. However at deep levels, it's hard to tune your damage to get the killing blow against them. Even monsters like the beast with X ears does not have exactly X in HP. However, I just thought of one possibility. You can funksling the gizmo along with one of the cursed combat items from the pirates. Those can do so much damage, it'd be easy to ensure a killing blow (after you've already worn down the monster in earlier rounds, depending on how much HP it had). --Prestige 18:05, 28 December 2007 (CST)


roasted marshmallows

I'm sure this is on a lot of minds, or maybe just mine, but with the introduction of the roasted marshmallow, how do they affect basementing? it seems like they would be a really useful item to most new basementers, or players wishing to basement without a large skill set or large meat account --T.max 16:35, 28 January 2008 (CST)

I'm glad someone else commented on this. I'm a lowly level 15 Pastamancer, but just managed to pass the (very frustrating) HP test 'Throwin down the Gauntlet'. roasted marshmallows were critical to my success. Thanks to the Maximizing Your Damage Absorption guide, I donned the Antique Helmet, Giant Foam Finger, Keg Shield, Antique Greaves, badass belt, Orange Star of Sacrifice, and pirate fledges; then bought some twinkly powder in the mall and used it after eating 4 roasted marshmallows. Base Stats: 165, 221, 161, Buffed stats: 278, 320, 272. I lost 334 hit points, but came away with 28 remaining. Whew! --Scrilladilla 09:46, 24 May 2008 (CDT)

  • Since the rotten adventure gains would hinder level-grinding, and the effect decay would work counter to increasing basement difficulty, my aim would be to level until "close" to my basement goal before eating any of these. Then I'd want to have some baseline level maintained, on top of whatever buffs I'm willing to run. Spending 10 stomach, I could get +30 turns per day, which covers the maximum 30 turns of the six simultaneous wad buffs. But then that could lead to a fair bit of adventure wastage in order to preserve the marshmallow buff. Drat these new mechanics... --Bagatelle 21:55, 28 January 2008 (CST)

Terminology

Is there a reason why phials are referred to as "powder potions" throughout the text?--WillGruff 13:52, 15 March 2008 (CDT)

  • They're made from elemental powders. If you feel it's unclear, feel free to change it. --Bagatelle 15:25, 15 March 2008 (CDT)

Pork Gem drinks

At 10-15k each per 50 turns, these seem like a much better solution for the last 50 levels before a Telescope than the one specified (wads, mojo filters and waiting for your spleen). They are only 50% but for me that was enough to get through without elemental wads. HippoKing 16:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Sauceror Best Basement Diver

With the recent changes to the Nemesis quest giving sauceror's access to 3 sets of potions for 200% 100% and 50% respective boosts to stats, the sauceror has much more bang for basement diving. The 15 adv per sauce potions, these new potions, and the ball pit have enough boosts to more than cover the stats required for hitting level 500, quickly and effectively, with little cost. At this point a HC Sauceror can pull 700% stat boost without much effort. --Uzziah 00:43, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Additionally, the Windsor pan of the source grants an uncapped spell (saucemageddon) that can be used against the beer golem, so spectral snapper may no longer be needed.--El Bobbo 16:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC) I got saucemaggeddon blocked by the Golem today :/--Modran 08:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

SlimeSuit

With slimesuit, the elemental basement tests are only worth 1/5 of their real damage, meaning that the Lv499 is equivalent to a non-slimesuit Lv99. with 17 resistance (you only need 1 superhuman because slimesuit gives 12 units by itself) to all elements, myst classes can slice tests to 1/10th of their real damage, meaning the Lv499 test would only equal a measly 49th floor test.--The ErosionSeeker 18:46, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

added a new section to the elemental damage tests

I added a section to the elemental damage to talk about maximizing EHP, the amount of unreduced damage you can take. Please read edit and send feedback.Averagebob 07:29, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Monster level preliminary results

  • Monster attack has no variance.
  • Monster defense is 90% of buffed monster attack, rounded up to the nearest integer.
  • Monster HP is 85% of BASE monster attack (rounded up to the nearest integer) PLUS bonus monster level.
  • The Ghost has 25% of the normal base HP, so it's really ceiling(baseML*.85*.25)+bonusML.
  • The stone golem, then, probably has 50% of the normal HP. Yet to be tested.

--Raijinili 22:38, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

"Preparation" section

Planning section for a section on pre-dive planning.

Things you would need to work to get before starting (if you want to have them available):

Things that can be done during the dive:

Pre-run choices:

In-run:

Previous ascensions:

Skills
See #Skills

Combat Skills

--Raijinili 03:22, 8 January 2013 (CET) --Raijinili 09:05, 21 January 2013 (CET)

"Preparation" section (Comments)

  • Things you would need to work to get before starting:
    I'd agree that Slimesuit would be a must, but I never munched on a queen cookie or used the El Vibrato Relics for the Basement.
    I'd replace Hodgman gear with "Hodgman gear or comparable equipment"
  • Pre-run choices:
    The Seal Clubber is fastest to level.
    Turtle Tamer deserves a mentioning for players who haven't ascended very often: It has natural high HP, high MP and high DA.
    Stomach of Steel would be a matter of play stile.
    Way of the Surprising Fist as a Path-choice wouldn't that much difference, since there are limits to how much damage it can do. If you don't have a spell or (useful) combat-skill permed, you can blast everything away with Entangling Noodles/stun-items and Love Songs/Devine Favors (which is not as expensive as you would expect).
  • Skills:
    First notice that there's already the Permed Skills Section that already covers most of this.
    I wouldn't divide Skills and Combat Skills. In the end players need both.
    Tao of the Terrapin - You can go as much without it as without Cannelloni Cocoon, but it's more relaxed if you don't.
    Spirit of Rigatoni - Chefstaves are useful for combat (if you have access to any spells).
    The combat initiative-skills are a nice addition, but for Basement matters I would rank them near the end of the list, above the Elemental Resistance skills.
    Entangling Noodles should be ranked above Spirit of Ravioli

--Yatsufusa 03:46, 8 January 2013 (CET)

    • Sauceror Nemesis Quest potions are a favorite of mine for diving. Last dive I did I reached floor 500 while still level 25 or less. (Ascension 114 for me, which started as zombie master, but graduated to Sauceror and then ascended at level 25.) And here are my outfits (condensed from manageoutfit page html), for better or worse:
id 1014: name basement-cold
  • hardened slime hat
  • titanium assault umbrella
  • six-rainbow shield
  • shark jumper
  • hardened slime pants
  • hardened slime belt
  • Earring of Fire
  • Unspeakable Earring
id 1013: name basement-hot
  • hardened slime hat
  • titanium assault umbrella
  • six-rainbow shield
  • shark jumper
  • hardened slime pants
  • hardened slime belt
  • Mudflap-Girl Earring
  • Nose Ring of Putrescence
id 1278: name basement-moxie
  • Hodgman's porkpie hat
  • 7-inch discus
  • Medallion of the Ventrilo Prince
  • extra-see-thru nightie
  • Camp Scout backpack
  • sugar shorts
  • Ol' Scratch's manacles
  • Hodgman's bow tie
  • stainless steel suspenders
id 1000: name basement-muscle
  • plexiglass pith helmet
  • Brimstone Bludgeon
  • old-school flying disc
  • letterman's jacket
  • Can-Can skirt
  • V for Vivala mask
  • Hodgman's bow tie
  • cursed scrunchie
id 1280: name basement-myst
  • Hodgman's porkpie hat
  • teflon spatula
  • red wagon
  • sea salt scrubs
  • Camp Scout backpack
  • sugar shorts
  • plexiglass pinky ring
  • plexiglass pocketwatch
  • Brimstone Bracelet
id 1015: name basement-sleaze
  • hardened slime hat
  • titanium assault umbrella
  • six-rainbow shield
  • shark jumper
  • hardened slime pants
  • hardened slime belt
  • Ice-Cold Beerring
  • Unspeakable Earring
id 1002: name basement-spooky
  • hardened slime hat
  • titanium assault umbrella
  • six-rainbow shield
  • shark jumper
  • hardened slime pants
  • hardened slime belt
  • Earring of Fire
  • Nose Ring of Putrescence
id 1012: name basement-stench
  • hardened slime hat
  • titanium assault umbrella
  • six-rainbow shield
  • shark jumper
  • hardened slime pants
  • hardened slime belt
  • Mudflap-Girl Earring
  • Ice-Cold Beerring
id 1041: name max-da
  • sponge helmet
  • duct tape sword
  • catskin buckler
  • Mer-kin breastplate
  • corroded breeches
  • spiky turtle shoulderpads
  • stainless steel suspenders
  • tiny plastic Ed the Undying

--Club (#66669) (Talk) 05:04, 8 January 2013 (CET)

@Yatsufusa: It wasn't clear (meaning there needs to be a clarification), but I don't mean these as a must-have, but rather, if you want it, you'll have to work for it before the dive. --Raijinili 20:50, 18 January 2013 (CET)

  • Ah sorry, now I get it. That makes sense and is indeed helpful. If you could (re)phrase it similar to this, it would be much clearer. --Yatsufusa 11:36, 19 January 2013 (CET)
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