Talk:Maximizing Your Moxie

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Equipment Only

Should we put an "equipment only" total? I don't have easy acsess to all the buffs and effects, and I use the "dressing for sucsess" pages all the time. --Golden cow2 15:51, 29 November 2006 (CST)

Yes, I agree... *SOMEONE* should do it... But surely it is only a matter of adding up all of the modifiers yourself and seeing what comes out at the end? I only personally use these tables as a guide, and generally take bits from all of it... So I don't think it would make THAT much difference if it were to be there... But still, it might be a nice feature for some... -- AnomTheTerror 22:39, 08 April 2007 (GMT)

Perhaps another row with a subtotal of the equipment only modifier before the buff listings? --Xclockwatcher 16:27, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

KoL Deity

While BoozerBear is unarguably a KoL deity if anyone is, should a limit-exactly-one item such as the MAHI fez be on this list at all? Even if you had unlimited resources, you couldn't get one, untradeable as it is. (also, the arse-shooting crossbow, and, somewhat less importantly due to other items in existence, the intergalactic pom-poms) Neongrey 19:38, 23 January 2006 (Central Standard Time)

  • From Dressing For Success: KOL Deity - This player has the absolute best possible equipment and advantages. This represents the theoretical maximum. --Snickles 19:54, 23 January 2006 (Central Standard Time)
    • Even if you WERE Boozerbear (and owned the MAHI fez), you still wouldn't be able to use the arse-shooting crossbow or intergalactic pom-poms. All three of those items are custom (one of a kind) and untradeable, so it is not possible to have more than one at a time. Any outfit that would use all 3 of these cannot possibly be considered to be theoretical since theoretical implies that it is possible, and said item setup is clearly impossible. --Quietust 22:43, 26 March 2006 (CST)
      • These charts are ultimately arbitrary and useless, especially at the upper levels. If the possible maximum is only attainable by the makers of the game, then there is hardly any point in labelling or quantifying it. "Here's most you can get, except you can't get it. Ever. Unless you make the items, in which case it doesn't matter because you can give yourself +50 moxie anyway." ~ 14:45, 11 August 2006 (EST)
      • Technically, "theory" differs from "practice" in that theory considers what would be possible, if practical considerations didn't get in the way. So yes, it would be possible in theory to have all three of those items, if for instance you're Jick or Xenophobe and can simply create them as needed for testing something and then delete them once you're done. In practice, for anybody who isn't Jick or Xeno, it isn't possible. But if you're not Jick or Xeno, you're not really a KoL Deity anyway, right? (If by "Deity" you mean "someone who can change the code or the database as needed to make anything happen", which seems like a pretty good working definition of a deity in game terms.) -- Old Ned 00:20, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
      • The way I see it, these charts are made to help out noobs who want to know how to be the best they can be. Nobody gives a damn about your theroies, and the KoL deity should be based upon the AVERAGE Kol Deity, not after a specific person (Like BoozerBear.) Therefore, the MAHI fez needs to be removed from this list, as well as the crossbow and pom-poms. Why? Because it's theory versus utility, and utility wins, my friend. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by PhantomTrogdor (talk • contribs) at 13:35, 20 September 2006 (CDT).
        • Well, my shy friend, you've managed to hit the trifecta of reasons why it's difficult to give "a damn about your "theroies"": grobianism, misspelling, and incoherent reasoning. Additionally, please note (again) that a KOL Diety represents the "theoretical maximum". Setting all that aside, there is however something of a point to be made that, since the fez and the crossbow can't be equiped by the same person, one or the other of them should be removed, probably the crossbow. But I can't say I'm in any hurry to do so - this argument is perilously close to being as useful as arguing over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. --Gymnosophist 15:32, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

Jokes?

Same thing as the myst...I'm not sure what the off site links are providing in terms of increasing in game stat buffs...--J12601 10:18, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

Suggested Changes

  • Shouldn't Normal be using Boss Bat Britches instead of leather chaps? I'm definately not hardcore, and that's what I've got. ^_^ --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neongrey (talk • contribs) at 19:38, 23 January 2006 (Central Standard Time).
    • Well, you have to have ascended once to have the Britches, so that may be a reason for exclusion. -- TheArchivist 09:36, 23 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)
  • Shouldn't Villa be using a Souvenir Ski T-Shirt instead of a Supportive Bra? -- TheArchivist 09:36, 23 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)
  • According to the descriptions of the levels, shouldn't Hardcore not have the stainless steel stuff yet? Doesn't that fall under villa? --MisterRussia 09:47, 23 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)
    • Actually, you must do a hardcore ascension to get the SS stuff, so by defenition, it should include it.--Kiltan 15:03, 3 June 2006 (AKDT)
  • Shouldn't this take into account off-hand items and dual weapons? If I recall correctlly, Sock Monkey increases Moxie, and the cane is a one-handed weapon...--Rikmach 04:24, 18 March 2006 (CST)
  • All the good non-class-specific moxie weapons are two-handed, so the Sock Monkey wouldn't help anyone that this list covers. But it does seem sensible that a Villa level moxiemaster would be weiding dual canes. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tirian (talk • contribs) at 15:27, 18 March 2006 (CST).
    • Forget the sock monkey, easter egg balloons are better. Without dual-fisted skull smashing, the best combination is a cane or star boomerang and an easter egg balloon (+10 Moxie). With double-fisted skull smashing this changes to two canes or two boomerangs (+10 Moxie).--Temporary man 19:56, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
  • Couldn't the "normal" class afford grass skirts for +6 moxie? --Kiltan 14:39, 3 June 2006 (AKDT)
  • Seems to me that swashbuckling pants offer the same +4 moxie boost as leather chaps without the muscle penalty, and is much more common and achieved earlier. Tirian 15:54, 16 March 2006 (CST)
  • I agree. Show some love for the swashbuckling pants! --Listen2Reason 15:47, 3 June 2006 (CDT)
  • Added the obvious swashbuckling pants. --QJ 19:23, 20 June 2006 (CDT)
  • There are a couple of potions that have been replaced with potions that do not do the same thing (Dill-Tastic and Maraschino Moxiosity). Should they be deleted or are there other potions that have te same effect?--Tails86 14:14, 1 July 2006 (CDT)
  • Shouldn't all of these use a star boomerang and a penguin skin buckler instead of the asbestos crossbow? (total +10 instead of +9)? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by CapriciousOne (talk • contribs) at 02:38, 23 July 2006 (CDT).
    • Further to this, the Asbestos Crossbow is no longer Moxie +9 (as of Tuesday 16th Aug. 2006), so even if the table retains the 2 handed weapon approach, the Star Crossbow should be used (+8 Moxie).--Aemeth 01:37, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
  • Considering fake plastic grass runs at least 58k nowadays, having a grass skirt seems a little less reasonable for a "normal".--Aznpride05 16:56, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
  • Any combination of these are the same, and better than the asbestos crossbow:
    Potato pistol (I dual-wield these as soon as I get the cheese)
    Penguin skin buckler(needs armor-crafting and the peak)
    Easter egg balloon(can't get until the very end)
    Star boomerang(can't get until near the end)
    I would put potato pistol and easter egg balloon here, I guess, because it requires the least skills. Maybe the villa can have two potato pistols. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by EtzHadaat (talk • contribs) at 19:02, 28 August 2006 (CDT).
  • Oh and what about "tap shoes" instead of a Sneaky Pete's Breath spray? It's +11 Moxie and comes from the same monster as the worn tophat... Sure it's -20% initiative but that's not what we're here for. :\ --Golden cow2 15:59, 29 November 2006 (CST)
  • Ascender / Normal / Apathetic Lizardman should each ditch one of the breath sprays (+10) and equip some tap shoes (+11). Tap shoes cannot be multi-equipped though. Also, none of Maximizing your (Moxie|Muscle|Mysticality) seem to take into consideration the six twinkly wad buffs. Sure the spleen damage will limit how many turns per day you can use all six, but I'm finding it helpful for basement diving. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 14:39, 31 January 2007 (CST)
  • I'd say for ascender a carob cannon is better than lousy potato gun --Konrads 05:15, 26 February 2007 (CST)
    • The potato pistol is actually slightly better in terms of strictly maximizing your Moxie since it allows for equipping an off-hand item too (the carob cannon is 2-handed). --TheDotGamer 09:30, 26 February 2007 (CST)
  • The Chintzy Pendants give 12 main stat and 6 secondary stat. So it would give 12 moxie for DB and AT, and 6 moxie for SC and Sauceror. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lgolos (talk • contribs) at 13:09, 4 March 2007 (CST).
  • Does anyone know whether the extrema for the Grimacite items and the Talismans actually coincide? This would have an effect on the Deity column. Same goes for the Maximizing Your Muscle and Maximizing Your Mysticality tables. --Bagatelle 13:35, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
    • The Grimacite items provide more stat gains when Grimace and the minimoon are dark, while the Talismans provide higher increases when the moons are light. Thus, if both items are owned, equipping one or the other will always provide at least a 30% stat bonus. That is to say that there are days when both pieces of equipment will provide a 30% bonus, but on days when one is providing less than a 30% bonus the other is providing at least a 30% bonus. --TheDotGamer 07:07, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
  • I suggest removing the Fez of etymology from the list. The Worn tophat offers the same Moxie boost including a +20% Combat Initiative (thus counteracting the -20% from the tap shoes), and is even the suggested item for the Apathic Lizardman. --Yuumi 06:37, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
    • All the maximizing your(...) pages currently don't care about any other attributes of the equipment/effects used other than it provides the most of what the page is for. In your example, since both items both offer exactly the same Moxie bonus (+7), both are listed. It doesn't even matter that the fez of etymology is a much more valuable item in the mall, either. What you are suggesting is actually a change to all of the Dressing For Success pages, and if you feel like pursuing your suggestion it should probably be brought up on that talk page. --TheDotGamer 07:07, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
  • For KoL Deity, should the weapon and offhand slot now be occupied by duel wielded Bottle-rocket crossbows. If my calculations are correct, this +30% bonus outweighs the Arse-shooting crossbow easily.--Aemeth 14:49, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
    • Entirely true. It should also be applied to Villa.--AAAC 21:14, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
  • Accessories 2 and 3 for Ascenders and accessory 3 for Villa should be replaced with the tube sock.--AAAC 21:37, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
  • For accessories listed under either normal or ascender shouldn't the various Medals of Valor that give +11 to All Attributes replace one of the sneaky pete's in both normal and ascender and maybe the tap shoes in ascender. I would say normal could have access to one medal either the Order of the Silver Wossname, Pink Heart of Spirit, or Copper Alpha of Sincerity . And for ascender they should have access to at least two of these items, so it might kick tap shoes off since there are no negatives to wearing a medal. --Tanik 11:08, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
  • Shouldn't the Fez of etymology be re-added to the Casual and Normal columns because it's +7 moxie could add more then the 10% from the fancy ball mask? --Chawmp 23:46, 23 January 2008 (CST)
    • For the method of the table we assume 150 base stat for percentage calculations. --Chunky_boo 23:52, 23 January 2008 (CST)
    • Oh alrighty, thanks for clearing that up. --Chawmp 00:34, 24 January 2008 (CST)
  • Should the apathetic lizardman have access to the smile of Mr. A? And if they do, why isn't any of the accessories (or Mr. Eh) on here? In my humble opinion, casual players will not donate the money, and usually don't have the connections to get a Smile of Mr. A. --Silenthuntr7 20:58, 11 August 2008 (CDT)

this table needs reclassifications

since when does Ascender have brimstone items and casual have stainless steel items? this is the same "methodology" that says not even ascenders have shirts, only "Villa"? So Ascenders can't be assumed to have shirts, because not all of them would have them, yet they ARE assumed to have Brimstone items, which is a much harder run than a simple perm in either hardcore OR softcore. This series is becoming incrementally less and less useful every time I come back here...PassionFever 16:46, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

  • Actually the method that is used to write these pages was rewritten a week ago so this page, along with others, is using the new method. --Chunky_boo 17:02, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

Villa/Ascender

Shouldn't the Mr A on Villa and the tap shoes on Ascender be changed to SS Suspenders?

at 150moxie 15% is ~22 moxie, better than +11, or +15.

Just a thought. --Duff 20:22, 4 December 2007 (CST)

buff from Hobopolis

Healthy Bronze Glow should make it somewhere to the tables i think... it's +50% moxie.

missing item?

Ol' Scratch's Manacles give +15% moxie, don't they? Not sure how to edit the table. Mixie 11:42, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Zombo's skull ring is +15% moxie as well--Cubsmaniac 21:20, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I think buoybottoms should definately be added to the list, +11 moxie is huge. --Annoying nerd 19:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

  • I suspect the issue is with the +7 Monster Level, which would logically negate +7 of the Moxie unless you're doing stuff that involves straight stat tests (e.g. Daily Dungeon or Fernswarthy's Basement stat tests). --Quietust (t|c) 19:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
    • You got to be kidding me... Speed ascensions rely on ML - it isn't much of a drawback. The "side effect" can always be compensated for, if one wanted to, by lowering their Annoy-o-Tron down a few notches. People aren't usually pessimistic with ML. Look on the page, the only other absolute modifier is leather chaps with a mere +8 moxie bonus. As my last resort, to convince you this item is list-worthy, let's say the +7 ML nullifies 7 of the +11 moxie bonus, but there is still +4 moxie left and there are no other absolute modifiers listed on the page than leather chaps. Come on, +11 would make a fine addition to the page! It would be the new highest absolute modifier in the pants section! Definately worth listing, no!? How did harem girl t-shirt make the shirt section with only +3 moxie and 5 other shirts that top it as high as +11? --Annoying nerd 21:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Elvish sunglasses is missing from Accessories. It gives +10 +10% moxie. Csabo 00:39, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Can someone add Amber Aviator Shades at +5% moxie to this list? - AvangionQ / April 22nd, 2010

  • Done. --Yatsufusa 01:41, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Can someone add Mer-kin Sneakmask at +5% moxie to this list? - AvangionQ / June 21st, 2010

  • Done. --Yatsufusa 01:41, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

More items to add: Fossilized Necklace (+10 mox/+15% mox) Juju Mojo Mask (+10% mox) - Mystia / Septemper 12, 2010

  • Those are already listed... --Yatsufusa 23:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

The Greatest American Pants have 100% moxie boost as one of their charges. The charge boost is listed on other maximizing pages (item find). It seems to me it should be included. --Watermoon 22:31, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

  • Indeed they should. It seems everybody has just overseen them until now. --Yatsufusa 04:02, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Is there a reason Having a Ball! isn't on any of the maximizing pages? Granted it's only obtainable once a day for 20 turns but it's a 1-100% buff for myst. moxie, and muscle.--Watermoon 02:40, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

mutated x2?

Not sure why, but mutated is on the Effects and buffs twice? --Franknbeans 14:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

  • Huh, so it is. Removed. --Flargen 14:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Categories - Mr Store?

Should items that are indirect products of Mr. Store items, but that don't need the player to actually have the Mr. Store item be categorized the same as actual Mr. Store items? I don't think a Fancy Ball Mask or Moonthril belong in a Mr. Store category. --Foobar 15:41, 8 December 2011 (CET)

  • It's the definition made on Dressing For Success ("Items in this category once existed in Mr. Store or are created by using a Mr. Store item.") I think it would add transperancy to add a new category for (tradable) items created by using a Mr. Store item. On the other hand the guys who originally made those categories are a clever bunch. Maybe there is some good reason I can't grasp right now. Either way you should discuss it there because it concerns all the Maximizing Your...-pages, not just Moxie. --Yatsufusa 19:18, 8 December 2011 (CET)

Pants?

The Nouveau nosering is listed under pants, but should be under accessories. I'd change it myself, but I have a feeling I'd break something. --Jimfromtx (talk) 19:07, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

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